www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

4 Pocket Queen hands from 50nl session

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

andy-akb

06-08-2006, 08:28 PM Post subject: 4 Pocket Queen hands from 50nl session

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Maine

Posts: 1,836

Yea, so I got killed when I moved up to $50nl again, dropped about 1.5 buyins over 800 hands, so not horrible, but I lost 2.5 buyins with QQ alone so Im not sure if it is just a downswing or if I have a big leak playing this hand.

Critique any of my lines as well as my thinking in any or all of these hands, any comments are appreciated.

First I have two hands against an unknown at the table, ie. they have been at the table for like 3 hands.

1. This first hand I think I could have gotten away from, but Im not really sure how, I dont beat much that calls but the turn would be hard to play when villain has over half his stack in on the flop [if i just called the raise], and I dont know if I can just outright fold to the minraise from an unknown.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($92.55)
UTG ($56.90)
UTG+1 ($49.25)
MP1 ($62.90)
MP2 ($50)
MP3 ($71.50)
CO ($14.90)
Button ($57.15)
SB ($48.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, Q

. MP2 posts a blind of $0.50. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
3 folds, MP2 (poster) raises to $1.5, 4 folds, Hero raises to $5.5, MP2 calls $4.

Flop: ($12.25) J

, J

, 7

(2 players)
Hero Bets $10, MP2 raises to $20, Hero is all-in $76.55, MP2 calls $24

Turn: ($97.25) T

(2 players)

River: ($97.35) 8

(2 players)

Final Pot: $97.25

2. Villain had been at the table 4 hands, played 2 and raised one of those, really doesnt mean anything at all. In EP he makes a fairly large raise, 6xBB and its folded to me in the BB. I consider just calling this, but Im really not positive so I amke a raise to $10, should this have been bigger? I lead the flop, planning on getting a fold or to 3bet AI, he just calls. I have $25 left and just push the turn. Was the flop a spot I should have tried a checkraise AI? This hand I really dont think I could have gotten away from, if you can find a spot, please tell me and critique my line if you dont like it.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($56.05)
MP1 ($56.45)
MP2 ($52.35)
MP3 ($50.95)
CO ($68.37)
Button ($132.65)
SB ($31.65)
Hero ($50)
UTG ($108.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, Q

. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $3, 6 folds, Hero raises to $9.5, UTG+1 calls $7.

Flop: ($20.25) 6

, 3

, 6

(2 players)
Hero bets $15, UTG+1 calls $15.

Turn: ($50.25) 5

(2 players)
Hero is all-in $25, UTG+1 calls $25.

River: ($97.25) 3

(2 players)

Final Pot: $97.25

These last two hands I have a somewhat decent stat read on my opponents. For reference, Im running at about 17/10/2.5

3. The UTG villain this hand was 24/7/1 over about 100 hands. So he was fairly TAGG preflop, but passive postflop. I bet this hand on the flop for value and protection after it was checked to me, the first person who checked called my bet, the second made a smallish raise, I folded because a checkraise from a passive player typically shows strength and the original check-caller was still to act. Was this too weak tight?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($50)
MP3 ($54.55)
CO ($47.60)
Button ($47)
SB ($78.14)
BB ($28.40)
UTG ($56.55)
UTG+1 ($48.50)
MP1 ($85)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q

, Q

. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.5, 4 folds, BB calls $2, UTG calls $2.

Flop: ($7.75) T

, 2

, 4

(3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $7, BB calls $7, UTG raises to $16, Hero folds, UTG calls $9.90.

4. This villain is 36/2.5/1.6 over 150 hands, so fairly loose passive and during this session he had called most of my raises and then folded to my cbets, this is the first time he hadnt folded to a cbet. He range preflop was fairly wide, probably top 20-25% of hands, his flop push could mean a few things. If we put him on an overpair, I am ahead of 99-JJ and behind KK+, everything else in his range would be a set or two pair, although 2pair is pretty unlikey. Is this a standard fold, or should I have looked him up? Given how loose he was preflop and passive postflop I couldnt imagine that Id be ahead of much of his range so I folded.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($65.95)
UTG ($53.80)
UTG+1 ($50.75)
MP1 ($57.70)
MP2 ($72.99)
MP3 ($49.25)
CO ($59.15)
Button ($68.85)
SB ($32.76)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, Q

. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Button calls $0.50, SB (poster) raises to $1.25, Hero raises to $3.5, MP2 calls $3.50, Button folds, SB calls $2.50.

Flop: ($12.50) 8

, 3

, 5

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, MP2 is all-in $72.99, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $22.50

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

freechus9

06-09-2006, 06:55 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: IN UR BOX HAXXING UR FILEZ

Posts: 1,000

Hand 1: I think I can find a fold here. An unknown minraise could mean a lot of things, but on a board like this, I don't think a raise means anything other than a J.

Hand 2: Fine

Hand 3: PF limp/cold calling a raise could mean a pocket pair/suited connectors. The check raise on the flop is most probably a set and I think I can get out of here.

Hand 4: That's some scary action preflop... Given opp's range and passive nature, his push is pretty scary. I think I can fold here as well.

My sig is too much for you to handle.

benny999

06-09-2006, 08:57 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,567

I noticed you always reraise pre flop with QQ. I do too right now, but am reconsidering this for when I'm OOP without reads and there's not a ton of callers to the original raise. A lot of the time, reraising gets heads up against at least 22+/AK but usually JJ+/AK. Would anyone smooth call QQ pre flop in any of these spots for pot control?

1 - Hmm, tough without a read. I'd play it the same except bet a little less on the flop (around 2/3 pot..not too concerned about a flush draw, it's likely a WA/WB), and fold to the min raise. Villain is saying he does not care about the 2 Jacks, but whether it's because he thinks you don't have them (betting looks like you don't have a jack) or because he is way ahead of QQ, I dunno. But these stakes have so many TAGs/Loose-Passives that they're usually not making a move on you, so I think you're behind enough to fold to the min raise. Still, it's a tough laydown. Would anyone check the flop?

2 - I would play the same, although like I was saying, when he calls your $10 reraise, it's a cause for concern. There really is no point to raising more then 10 pre flop since raising to 20% of stacks takes away implied odds for all hands your ahead of.

3 - UTG got way too excited about that flop for those stats and his limp/call...I'd play it the same.

4 - I know it's not 100% accurate over 150 hands, but with 2.5% for pfr, the range is not likely to include a set on that board. I guestimate 55% TT/JJ (maybe 99) 45% KK/AA (maybe AhKh) because I think he wouldn't smooth call pre flop and/or overbet the flop with AA/KK but don't put it past him that much. It would be huge if you'd seen him play AA/KK pre flop before...otherwise I think I'd call this, but it's really close.

Lukie

06-09-2006, 08:59 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: back with a vengeance

Posts: 3,307

hand 1) Really tricky spot. Just calling the flop min-raise is silly since you're going to be committed to get it in anyway. In the heat of the moment I'd likely play it the same, but I think you can find a fold here to the flop min-raise.

hand 2) I think it's ok. If I thought this particular villain would have a really tight range given that he pumped it up to 6x from EP, I'd just call preflop. Against an unknown, I think this is played well.

hand 3) good fold IMO.

hand 4) in the stack listings it says SB has $33, but on the flop he goes allin for $69?? big difference here

Renton

06-09-2006, 09:34 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

Hand 1: I play it the same preflop, and I bet 8 on the flop and fold to the minraise. You only beat a bluff.

Hand 2: I consider just calling this preflop. Postflop is fine. Its not hugely +EV though, as lots of hands pay you off here, but you also pay off lotsa hands too.

Hand 3: This is a set a lot. I probably call the flop bet, but I can find a fold against some players. He has raised after a bet AND a call. This is rarely a draw, and a T usually just calls. JJ is the only thing you have value against here, other than that its TT/22/44. Regardless of whether you call the flop or not, you can muck this on the turn if he bets strong again.

Hand 4: I make it 4.5 to go pf. I bet 8 on the flop and fold to the SB's all in. Your key words are loose PASSIVE. You are very rarely good here. He raises 2.5% of his hands, plus hes UTG. I bet his PFR range UTG is only QQ+.

Renton

06-09-2006, 09:48 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

By the way your flop bets are a tad large IMO. And its making it very difficult for you to get away from hands.

That pot-size bet crap that people preach is a load of baloney in my experience. 2/3 the pot is usually enough to get the job done on the flop. There's no reason to bet full pot unless:

A) You are betting into a multiway pot with a strong hand or draw.
B) You are betting for value against a player who you know'll call.
C) You are betting to shut down odds for a player, and you know they'll call.

Don't bet full pot in situations where you have a hand that can't stand a reraise. Generally the only times i bet pot is preflop and on the river, except in the above special scenarios.

andy-akb

06-09-2006, 07:04 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Maine

Posts: 1,836

1. I agree that I dont beat much, but just mentally I have a hard time laying down a hand that was a "big hand" preflop to a minraise on the flop, especially from an unknown, but I think its something I should start paying attention to more. If I had KK, would you push over the minraise?

2. Him calling my reraise was definitely a concern for me, but against an unknown I dont put him on QQ+, I think TT+, AK isnt out of the ordinary from a $50nl unknown. In what situation should I consider simply calling a raise preflop with a hand like QQ?

3. Glad this fold was ok, I had just lost with QQ big those two hands before and tried to not let it affect my play but wasnt sure if I was being too weak-tight here or not, glad it doesnt seem unreasonable.

4. Just realized this hand got messed up, villain was MP2, he pushed for $72.99 after my bet. Either way I didnt like a call here, especially for over 100BBs, glad people agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

I typically make large flop bets simply because they typically get paid off. On all 4 flops there was a flush draw and my bet is one that often will get called by one and that is a huge mistake for them to be making. I usually find it easier to fold to a raise of a PSB or 3/4 pot bet than to a 1/2-2/3 bet simply because a raise of a bigger bet typically means more strength. So I make the bigger bets both for value and protection because if somebody is calling a 2/3 pot bet they are very likely calling a 3/4-1 pot bet and the larger bets put more money in immediately discouraging their implied odds [assuming I can get away against too much action which I feel Im atleast ok at]. Please correct me if Im wrong though.

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:44 PM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

Full Ring NL Hold'em

4 Pocket Queen hands from 50nl session

Play for FREE and practice your game at...