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3 way gut shot straight flush draw! waddu i do?

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thizzSantaCruz

10-04-2007, 09:33 AM Post subject: 3 way gut shot straight flush draw! waddu i do?

#1 (permalink)

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This is our weekly home game. Table is 8 handed .25/.50 blinds $60 effective stacks.

UTG is a pretty succesful online player. He is your standard TAG capable of making moves.

He raises it up to $2.50

Unknown in the middle calls for $2.50, I assume hes a fish.

Button is kind of nitty and very aggressive, he also calls for $2.50.

I'm on the small blind with

and I complete.

Flop comes out

STFD wheeeeee!!!! I am contemplating leading out here in this pot to see where I am at. I am pretty sure UTG would raise over my bet as that is his standard play to take control of the hand back at which point I plan on shoving. I think I have good equity versus his range here. Before I can bet he throws out a c-bet out of turn of $7. I say ok I guess I check then. Right now my plan of attack is to raise, the board is dry and missed everything he has except for an over pair.

2nd player throws his cards in the muck and the nit on the button raises to $17. I have played with him a lot and his range here is FDs, sets, overpairs, and a very small part of it is air. He could be floating with overs because of the dry board.

I contemplate for a while and am torn between a smooth call to see what the next card is and hopefully string UTG along for the ride pricing myself in or raising and hoping to take the pot down right now. Comments on this decision are very welcome.

At this point I decide to smooth call.

UTG then pushes all in and the button thinks a while and calls. At this point I am getting 4 to 1 on my call. I have 42 bucks left and the pot is at around 170. These numbers I am sure of all the previous ones might not be dead on accurate as this is from memory and I'm kinda wasted right now.

If one of the players is drawing to a higher flush I am dead to a very small number of outs which is really bad. On the other hand if none of them has the flush I have a ton of equity in the pot and am priced in.

What do I do FTR? Comments on the flop call are also greatly appreciated, do people like a push over a call here and why?

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Chopper

10-04-2007, 02:33 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

let me start by saying i am wrong here.

but, i fold. and bitch about betting out of turn.....thats the worst blocking bet i've ever heard of. betting out of turn to keep the others out and/or get a fold or two before you have to act....bullshit.

mathematically, you have the pot odds on the flop to call the pushes. and thats what the math specialists will tell you, i suppose.

but, my whole stack on only a draw? granted, a good draw, but still...my 8 and 9 are clearly no good, my 6 is the best card, but it cant be a spade, most likely. there are going to be redraws to the boat here, too.

i feel i am only drawing to 3 outs after the pissing match ensues and i thank my lucky stars that i only called the flop bet...thereby saving my money.

good players who like equity will tell you to call this, i suppose.

too bad i suck. i fold.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

bigspenda73

10-04-2007, 02:46 PM

#3 (permalink)

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um don't fold

Deanglow

10-04-2007, 05:10 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Push over the button's raise because you want fold equity and you want to see both cards to come. Of course call after the other two are allin.

Ash256

10-04-2007, 05:11 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Alexos

10-04-2007, 05:21 PM

#6 (permalink)

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I did this for u very quickly...I assume it's close enough

Board: 5s 3c 7s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 33.104% 33.08% 00.03% 263452 200.50 { JJ+, AsKs }
Hand 1: 27.112% 26.99% 00.12% 214943 988.00 { TT, 77, 55, 33, A7s, As6s, A7o, 86o }
Hand 2: 39.785% 39.69% 00.10% 316075 787.50 { 9s8s }

Answer: Shove AI over the 17$ raise

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mxiu

10-04-2007, 06:00 PM

#7 (permalink)

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"but still...my 8 and 9 are clearly no good, my 6 is the best card, but it cant be a spade, most likely. "

6 of spades makes hero a straight flush, lol

push after button easily. FE+strong draw = win

bigslikk

10-04-2007, 07:12 PM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Chicago

Posts: 445

If you want a play by a fair set of rules, you should make it so that players are held to out-of-turn moves. For example, the guy would be forced to bet seven dollars if checked to, or something like that. How do they do at the world series I wonder? I know that you can't just say / put out a bet and then take it back. The intimidation factor of that move is just too unfair.

As far as the hand goes, I probably call, hope I've got the only flush draw, and then pray for the spade six.

jyms

10-04-2007, 07:41 PM

#9 (permalink)

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I can't get my chips in fast enough.

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BankItDrew

10-04-2007, 08:05 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Get your chips in as fast as possible.

I think you should not have called the first raise on the flop but rather came over the top. This is the moment where you have the most FE because you are check raising a raise in a multiway pot = huge strength.

Don't lead out on the flop 'to see where you're at,' you should know exactly where you're at: you need a spade or straight.

Anyways, play the hand as aggressively as possible.

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Chopper

10-04-2007, 09:51 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by mxiu

"but still...my 8 and 9 are clearly no good, my 6 is the best card, but it cant be a spade, most likely. "

6 of spades makes hero a straight flush, lol

yeah that one's my bad. like i said, i suck.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

NLHE lahooozaher

10-04-2007, 10:39 PM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 916

Quote:

but, my whole stack on only a draw?

Just want to add that this is why we practice good br management. If you see a +ev play you take it.

thizzSantaCruz

10-05-2007, 01:02 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Posts: 894

I think that both a flop raise and a call can beneficial in different circumstances. At the time I was hoping to get the other players stack in as well, and I accomplished that goal. This prices me in real well.

On the other hand by raising we will fold all over pairs here, these players are aware enough to lay them down. By doing this though sets will still felt the flop and maybe 2 pair will, allthough they make up no portion of UTGs range and a small portion of buttons range. Flush draws are not folding here, a quick calculation shows they are priced in. Knowing this, why is it so bad to smooth call and let UTG into the pot? The hand we are greatly scared of (the nut FD) is not folding so why don't we allow more money into the pot. With these type of players and a bet, and a raise if I re-raise here I see at least one of them getting it all in with me. The only way this won't happen is if both players have overpairs. The button would not have that strong of an overpair because he would have 3 bet it, and I do not see him reraising with a weak overpair. By calling we also see if we hit our draw. Is the fold equity really worth it in this situation with 2 players showing strength and a pretty marginal hand. We at the most have 11 outs....

Flopping quads and boats like its my job

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3 way gut shot straight flush draw! waddu i do?

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