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3 deadly hands in 5 mins

  
 
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tofu_boy
Old 08-03-2006, 05:44 PM     Post subject: 3 deadly hands in 5 mins #1 (permalink)  

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tofu_boy
the start was start ok until this mini deadly rush come to me then I decide to stop for the session.
please tell me what better way to do in each hands. thank you.
Hand #1
POKERSTARS GAME #5782749878: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/08/03 - 13:04:32 (ET)
Table 'Chacornac' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: AdenDean ($117.10 in chips)
Seat 2: sundogg13 ($42 in chips)
Seat 3: lightsup ($140.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Tofu_Boy04 ($64.15 in chips)
Seat 5: Redpecker75 ($97 in chips)
Seat 6: jp2prod ($217.10 in chips)
Seat 7: Omistaja ($203.30 in chips)
Seat 9: Ingeson ($106.65 in chips)
sundogg13: posts small blind $0.50
lightsup: posts big blind $1
JazzStud: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Tofu_Boy04 [Kh Kd]
Tofu_Boy04: calls $1
Redpecker75: folds
jp2prod: folds
Omistaja: raises $4 to $5
Ingeson: folds
AdenDean: folds
sundogg13: folds
lightsup: folds
Tofu_Boy04: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [2d 3h 9h]
Tofu_Boy04: checks
Omistaja: bets $8
Tofu_Boy04: raises $8 to $16
Omistaja: raises $146 to $162
Tofu_Boy04: calls $43.15 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [2d 3h 9h] [7c]
*** RIVER *** [2d 3h 9h 7c] [Jh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Tofu_Boy04: shows [Kh Kd] (a pair of Kings)
Omistaja: shows [Ad Ac] (a pair of Aces)
Omistaja collected $126.80 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $129.80 | Rake $3
Board [2d 3h 9h 7c Jh]
Seat 1: AdenDean (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: sundogg13 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: lightsup (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Tofu_Boy04 showed [Kh Kd] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 5: Redpecker75 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jp2prod folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Omistaja showed [Ad Ac] and won ($126.80) with a pair of Aces
Seat 9: Ingeson folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Hand #2
POKERSTARS GAME #5782622900: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/08/03 - 12:46:39 (ET)
Table 'Seili' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: 1p0kerboy ($136.80 in chips)
Seat 2: ck06 ($184.05 in chips)
Seat 3: PokerOneTen ($91.75 in chips)
Seat 4: DocRage ($36.50 in chips)
Seat 5: colind ($57.15 in chips)
Seat 6: Tofu_Boy04 ($111.90 in chips)
Seat 7: IveyWHO ($4.65 in chips)
Seat 8: JFNault ($76.10 in chips)
Seat 9: eyamaguc ($22.65 in chips)
1p0kerboy: posts small blind $0.50
ck06: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Tofu_Boy04 [Ks Kc]
PokerOneTen: calls $1
DocRage: folds
colind: raises $2 to $3
Tofu_Boy04: calls $3
IveyWHO: folds
JFNault: folds
eyamaguc: calls $3
1p0kerboy: folds
ck06: folds
PokerOneTen: calls $2
*** FLOP *** [7d 3h 2s]
PokerOneTen: checks
colind: checks
Tofu_Boy04: bets $6
eyamaguc: folds
PokerOneTen: folds
colind: raises $6 to $12
Tofu_Boy04: raises $6 to $18
colind: raises $36.15 to $54.15 and is all-in
Tofu_Boy04: calls $36.15
*** TURN *** [7d 3h 2s] [4s]
*** RIVER *** [7d 3h 2s 4s] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
colind: shows [7c 7h] (three of a kind, Sevens)
Tofu_Boy04: mucks hand
colind collected $118.80 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $121.80 | Rake $3
Board [7d 3h 2s 4s 8c]
Seat 1: 1p0kerboy (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: ck06 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: PokerOneTen folded on the Flop
Seat 4: DocRage folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: colind showed [7c 7h] and won ($118.80) with three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 6: Tofu_Boy04 mucked [Ks Kc]
Seat 7: IveyWHO folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: JFNault folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: eyamaguc (button) folded on the Flop
Hands #2
POKERSTARS GAME #5782736900: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/08/03 - 13:02:43 (ET)
Table 'Seili' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: 1p0kerboy ($140.80 in chips)
Seat 2: ck06 ($188.45 in chips)
Seat 3: PokerOneTen ($103.10 in chips)
Seat 4: DocRage ($38.30 in chips)
Seat 5: colind ($84.45 in chips)
Seat 6: Tofu_Boy04 ($50.25 in chips)
Seat 7: IveyWHO ($21.40 in chips)
Seat 8: JFNault ($83.65 in chips)
colind: posts small blind $0.50
Tofu_Boy04: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Tofu_Boy04 [Js Jh]
IveyWHO: calls $1
JFNault: folds
1p0kerboy: folds
ck06: folds
PokerOneTen: folds
DocRage: raises $2 to $3
colind: calls $2.50
Tofu_Boy04: raises $43 to $46
IveyWHO: folds
DocRage: folds
colind: calls $43
*** FLOP *** [6s 5d Kh]
colind: bets $5
Tofu_Boy04: calls $4.25 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [6s 5d Kh] [Th]
*** RIVER *** [6s 5d Kh Th] [6d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
colind: shows [Qc Qd] (two pair, Queens and Sixes)
Tofu_Boy04: mucks hand
colind collected $101.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $104.50 | Rake $3
Board [6s 5d Kh Th 6d]
Seat 1: 1p0kerboy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ck06 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: PokerOneTen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: DocRage (button) folded before Flop
Seat 5: colind (small blind) showed [Qc Qd] and won ($101.50) with two pair, Queens and Sixes
Seat 6: Tofu_Boy04 (big blind) mucked [Js Jh]
Seat 7: IveyWHO folded before Flop
Seat 8: JFNault folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Hands #3 I was about to stop for the session. therefore I push all-in just want to pick up little $ then go but eand up pay big for it....
After 334hands (-70,45)
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doctorgonzo
Old 08-03-2006, 05:53 PM #2 (permalink)  
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In hand #1, why didn't you raise pre-flop? Slow-playing a hand like KK is dangerous (although against AA, as in this situation, there's little you can do). Checking that flop is also pretty passive. Unless villain flopped a set, you are ahead of everything except AA here.

In hand #2 you should be re-raising with KK pre-flop. After the flop, the check-raise from the villain screams "I have a set."

In hand #3, that huge pre-flop raise looks like tilt to me.
Oh well, what can you do? It's all just Snakes on a Plane.
Percipio et pario
 
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Fnord
Old 08-03-2006, 05:55 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Original poster is terrible at big bet poker. Move down and read up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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bode
Old 08-03-2006, 05:56 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 hand 1: BET!!!! and if youre not going to open raise, reraise his bet. secondly, after villain bets the flop, re-raise to something significant. atleast $32, but DONT MIN-RAISE EVER!!!

hand 2: again, if you have a raiser in front of you with KK, reraise it. too much calling, not enough raising.

Quote:
Tofu_Boy04: bets $6
eyamaguc: folds
PokerOneTen: folds
colind: raises $6 to $12
Tofu_Boy04: raises $6 to $18
if you want to play limit, play limit. QUIT MIN-RAISING.

hand 3: this is how you should have played the 2 previous hands. the only thing is, why reraise to $46 of your $50 stack. either raise to something like $15-$18 or push.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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givememyleg
Old 08-03-2006, 06:01 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 So is there any reason you play your big pairs so passively?

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bode
Old 08-03-2006, 06:03 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
So is there any reason you play your big pairs so passively?
JJ is the stone cold nuts, Yo
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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LeFou
Old 08-03-2006, 06:26 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Might as well give him what he wants:

tofu_boy you poor guy what horrible luck! Every time you had a pair someone else had a bigger pair, and the one time they didn't they flopped a set! wtfrigged!

oh wait, I see you haven't posted in weeks. Must've gone off the grid. I wonder why.
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bair
Old 08-03-2006, 06:34 PM #8 (permalink)  
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pretty cool you play JJ harder than you play KK. good strategy. you could not have played these hands worse.
hand 1: reraise preflop
hand 2: reraise preflop
hand 3: dont reraise preflop, and if you do, dont leave yourself with $4 behind on the flop. my blind unborn son could have played this hand better.
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Miffed22001
Old 08-03-2006, 06:50 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 hand 1 is exactly the reason i am destorying this stars game at the mo. Slow played KK roflicous

Stacking off and trying to trap with one pair hands in fr NL holdem is a recipe for disaster.
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Fnord
Old 08-03-2006, 06:54 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Stacking off and trying to trap with one pair hands in fr NL holdem is a recipe for disaster.
It's a defeatist strategy. They play like nits, get no action, then try to create action by under-playing their best hands on the best streets while going full speed ahead with lukewarm hands. You're not playing Gus/Doyle/SpiritRock/whatever who's going to go apeshit aggro in response to weakness. It's probably just some random guy who wants to play some cards and showdown some pretty good hands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Warpe
Old 08-03-2006, 06:55 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Cocco_Bill
Old 08-03-2006, 07:17 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
hand 1 is exactly the reason i am destorying this stars game at the mo. Slow played KK roflicous

Stacking off and trying to trap with one pair hands in fr NL holdem is a recipe for disaster.
Weren't you the one always telling us how tough the stars game is?
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Fnord
Old 08-03-2006, 07:19 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
hand 1 is exactly the reason i am destorying this stars game at the mo. Slow played KK roflicous

Stacking off and trying to trap with one pair hands in fr NL holdem is a recipe for disaster.
Weren't you the one always telling us how tough the stars game is?
The man bragging about stacking nits that have sets is running good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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lambchopdc
Old 08-03-2006, 07:21 PM #14 (permalink)  
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limping in EP is the new button raise, come on people
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Fnord
Old 08-03-2006, 07:29 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lambchopdc
limping in EP is the new button raise
*shrug* it's a good play. I used to do it all the time with AA/KK and had great results. In this case however, it's part of a much bigger problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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tofu_boy
Old 08-03-2006, 07:51 PM #16 (permalink)  

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Hand #3 raise big with JJ b/c I'm about to sitout and that hand come up. I was tilt want to steal pot and leave. Very much on-tilt.
I don't know why but I seem to win much more $ LIMPs KK EP than raising them. Maybe I just just to passive. However, it's work for me so far and I'm winning with it. So why change the winning team???
I was running well until thses 3 hands happen so fast.
Good thing I stop and just play Tourney for the rest of the day.
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LeFou
Old 08-03-2006, 08:22 PM #17 (permalink)  
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omg he's alive!

#1: in EP you should usually limp-reraise the KK if get the chance. Would've crushed you anyway though.
#2: you should bet then reraise the kings and fold to the re-reraise. You're very likely on 2 outs at that point.
#3: you should not play tilted.
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Fnord
Old 08-03-2006, 08:24 PM #18 (permalink)  
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If I have a great hand you have a better hand, good for you. This shouldn't bother you much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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pantherhound
Old 08-03-2006, 09:48 PM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Stacking off and trying to trap with one pair hands in fr NL holdem is a recipe for disaster.
It's a defeatist strategy. They play like nits, get no action, then try to create action by under-playing their best hands on the best streets while going full speed ahead with lukewarm hands. You're not playing Gus/Doyle/SpiritRock/whatever who's going to go apeshit aggro in response to weakness. It's probably just some random guy who wants to play some cards and showdown some pretty good hands.
Fnord you have the most incredible way of describing things. Eloquent. couldn't have put it better if I'd got a first in english instead of a crappy upper second. YOU ARE MY HERO
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Renton
Old 08-03-2006, 10:13 PM #20 (permalink)  
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 You need to move down to 25nl (make sure you have at least 500 dollars) and read the entire beginners circle forum.

Do not read the New 19 hand play chart thread or the Yakuman's suggestions thread for fear of scarring your already struggling game. Just click the beginner's digest sticky and read everything in it,

and continue to post hands like you did this time.

Hopefully next time you post a hand you won't receive a barrage of sarcastic posts from people who automatically assume you are a complete idiot, just because you goofed up some hands.

We all goof up. Just last week I pushed all into someone's flopped top set with Ace-King high.
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Stripclubjunkie
Old 08-03-2006, 10:35 PM #21 (permalink)  
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When you only call, you'll get less info about your opponents hand... Raise more!
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Fnord
Old 08-03-2006, 10:37 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie
When you only call, you'll get less info about your opponents hand... Raise more!
Not always true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Stripclubjunkie
Old 08-03-2006, 10:45 PM #23 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie
When you only call, you'll get less info about your opponents hand... Raise more!
Not always true.
If tofuboy had reraised in hand 1, then he could maybe get away...
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Miffed22001
Old 08-03-2006, 10:46 PM #24 (permalink)  
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Quote:
The man bragging about stacking nits that have sets is running good.
close.
they just love to give free cards oop on the turn and then call the river 'bluff' after an mp pfr. gg them.

Quote:
Weren't you the one always telling us how tough the stars game is?
after my first 25k hands yes, i broke even thinking i couldnt outplay the nitty types who were either camping or calling stations when i missed.
I adapted, they make sets i make flushes behind and stack.
i havent taken a stack with a set yet fwiw on stars.
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KingLizard
Old 08-04-2006, 06:55 PM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
We all goof up. Just last week I pushed all into someone's flopped top set with Ace-King high.
This makes me feel better about my goofs. I mean that if Renton makes an occassional mistake, then I don't feel as bad about mine. Thanks Renton.

As for limping AA or KK from EP, I guess I just can't see how this has worked out as a winning strategy. You say it has for you, but I just can't see it unless you're playing tables so tight that only 1-2 players are seeing the flop.

When and where do you raise your high PPs? Just curious.
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LeFou
Old 08-04-2006, 07:20 PM #26 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLizard
I just can't see it unless you're playing tables so tight that only 1-2 players are seeing the flop.
I don't think tightness is that important to this play. The key is a couple of players behind you who love raising it up preflop. Limp-reraising them is often the best way to get the most chips in PF.

But I myself don't use it much.
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KingLizard
Old 08-04-2006, 07:59 PM #27 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFou
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLizard
I just can't see it unless you're playing tables so tight that only 1-2 players are seeing the flop.
I don't think tightness is that important to this play. The key is a couple of players behind you who love raising it up preflop. Limp-reraising them is often the best way to get the most chips in PF.

But I myself don't use it much.
But in your example, you have a read on the players behind. In that case, I would agree with the limping. But it didn't appear to me that the OP had such a read on his players or that he considered it important when he was limping from EP.
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lambchopdc
Old 08-05-2006, 08:04 PM #28 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by lambchopdc
limping in EP is the new button raise
*shrug* it's a good play. I used to do it all the time with AA/KK and had great results. In this case however, it's part of a much bigger problem.
It was a good play like 2 years ago, its become so overused its retarded. If someone can show me mathematically that limping AA and KK preflop is more +ev than standard raising in stakes <5/10 i would love to see it. I doubt anyone will be able to tho. I've been playing 2/4 and 3/6 FR on stars lately and i would say in 65%+ of hands there is an UTG limper. I actually could argue that you are killing your value by limping UTG because so many people suspect the limp/re-raise that they are only raising UTG limpers with hands they would call/3-bet an opening raise with anyhow.
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Renton
Old 08-05-2006, 08:12 PM #29 (permalink)  
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 Limp reraising is a horrible play in a deepstack money game, in and of itself. Its a wonderful play in a shortstack tourney situation. It can be a good play in a deepstack cashgame if used with other hands than AA.

I limp-reraise AA and KK about 5% of the time. Then again I also limp-reraise 22 and 33 five percent of the time as well.
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lambchopdc
Old 08-05-2006, 08:28 PM #30 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Limp reraising is a horrible play in a deepstack money game, in and of itself. Its a wonderful play in a shortstack tourney situation. It can be a good play in a deepstack cashgame if used with other hands than AA.

I limp-reraise AA and KK about 5% of the time. Then again I also limp-reraise 22 and 33 five percent of the time as well.
I think what people fail to understand is the fundamental reasoning behind limping in EP with big pairs. Its to mix up your game so you are harder to read, not to gain equity on a specific hand. At most low stakes games there isnt any reason to mix up your game. Most of the donkeys arent paying attention to you for long enough for it to matter. It just cracks me up that limping seems to be the new standard line for AA and KK. Let me give an example of why it doesnt work:

Im UTG with AA

Option A:

I limp, 2 people limp along, Button raises to 5bbs with QQ, blinds fold, i repop it to 20bbs, limpers fold, button calls, flop comes Kxx, i lead out, button folds. I win a 43.5 bb pot for a profit of 23.5 bbs.

Option B:

I raise it 4x. 2 donks flat call, button picks up QQ, raises to 20bbs to isolate, blinds fold, I re-raise it to 50 bbs, cold-callers fold, button either folds, calls or pushes (lets say on average he just calls), flop comes Kxx, i push, he folds. I win a 109.5 bb pot for a profit of 59.5 bbs.

The button is going to re-raise with QQ no matter what I do, so much for UTG limping getting more chips into the pot.
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LeFou
Old 08-08-2006, 02:43 PM #31 (permalink)  
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Isn't the other fundamental reasoning behind limping to punish hotshots who raise damn near everything in position when limped to?

Option C: I raise to 4x. One guy cold calls. Hotshot folds. I bet the flop, opp folds. I win 8bb.
Option D: I limp. Same other guy limps. Hotshot raises 5x. I reraise 15x. Hotshot unzips, swings it around a bit, then pushes with his KJ. I squish hotshot.
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Renton
Old 08-08-2006, 02:45 PM #32 (permalink)  
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 you win 5bbs usually when you limp reraise

A good players bb/hand with AA should be at least 12

limpreraising AA with deep stacks sucks

btw no hotshot is pushing with KJ. Everyone knows that a limpreraise is a dead hand giveaway and will only call with stacking hands like small pairs.
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rebuyman
Old 08-09-2006, 12:26 PM #33 (permalink)  
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 But if the stacks are only 100 BB, and you limp reraise KK and AA, no PP has the odds to call if you raise to like at least 13 big blinds or so but they will call anyway. If you just raise to 4xBB, they have odds to stack you. Mind you I suck at poker and may not know what I am talking about. I also played miffed on Nl50 full ring the other day.
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Vrax
Old 08-09-2006, 12:52 PM #34 (permalink)  
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Quote:
. If you just raise to 4xBB, they have odds to stack you. Mind you I suck at poker and may not know what I am talking about
You don't go 100BB with big PP everytime regardless of board/opponent/other "it depends". At least your big pairs shouldn't be played like that. If you also have wide enough range preflop and mix it with some other "big pot" hands (like 44, J9s from time to time) then opponents with pocket pairs cannot be assured that they will take your stack everytime they flop a set.
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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