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Micro2Macro
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12-24-2010, 08:53 PM
Post subject: 3/6 - FOLDING QUADS AMIRITE
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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Villain is a recreational player.
Snap shoved river before chatting. How would you guys perceive his chat? Would it lean you towards folding? I seriously can't see any random fish talking like this after snap overbet jamming river and ending up showing a bluff.
$3/$6 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG xxx ($325.05)
UTG+1 xxx ($363)
MP1 xxx ($182.25)
MP2 xxx ($434.85)
CO Hero ($319.20)
BTN xxx ($404)
SB xxx ($1,067.55)
BB xxx ($300)
Pre-Flop: ($9, 8 players) Hero is CO  
3 folds, noh65 calls $6, Hero raises to $24, 3 folds, noh65 calls $18
Flop:    ($57, 2 players)
noh65 checks, Hero bets $30, noh65 calls $30
Turn:  ($117, 2 players)
noh65 checks, Hero checks
River:  ($117, 2 players)
noh65 goes all-in $380.85, noh65 says "aa", Hero says "lol", Hero says "5 aces?", noh65 says "kk", Hero folds
Final Pot: $497.85
noh65 wins $494.85 (net +$60)
Hero lost $54
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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caddie444
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: constantly UTG
Posts: 723
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nh Daven
I bet turn though
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Don't complain; Just work harder - Randy Pausch (The Last Lecture)
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aka_red
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: house
Posts: 903
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52$ on the turn
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Sadface at turn
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Razvan729
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bucuresti, Romania
Posts: 833
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wow, i would have never ever would have folded here! with 3 A on board, the chance he got an A pre flop is under 0,1%. i couldnt fold that.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Stack size FAIL. Turn action FAIL.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Looking at it today I think turn is fine because anyone who has an ace is never folding no matter how big you bet.
Sadface at river  .
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Stack size FAIL. Turn action FAIL.
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was a 50bb table, but yeah still fail.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Looking at it today I think turn is fine because anyone who has an ace is never folding no matter how big you bet.
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Yeah we're stacking Ax almost always, but we lose value vs KK-99 if we check the turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
was a 50bb table, but yeah still fail.
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Ok, the fact that we don't cover the fish on our right was tilting me pretty hard.
I'd call river btw.
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StarGrinder
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UTG (aka USA)
Posts: 683
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Hero calls river and hopes poker room has a nice bad beat jack pot. 
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Think about his range for check/calling flop yo
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
Think about his range for check/calling flop yo
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Of course we do. XXhh, 22-KK, KQ, Ax.
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jd321
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High Card
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5
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lol @ folding quads...I am a nit, and wouldn't make that fold ever.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd321
lol @ folding quads...I am a nit, and wouldn't make that fold ever.
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like most nits, you probably suck at hand reading and interpreting chat tells.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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Toadstool
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 442
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He seems pretty confident you haven't got the case ace..
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,807
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i prefer bet turn
river is a fold
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Why the hell is the fish snap overjamming the river with the hypernuts??? I call BS on this entire thread.
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Ender
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 50
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You took that chat line seriously? You gotta ask why someone who has a four ace hand would say it before you call/fold?
Chances he has 99-KK (better house than 88) are greater than actually having the Ace. Although, he may as well be playing with A7o and wet himself on the flop.
I call, and I'd start drinking if he has the 4th ace.
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demid
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High Card
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1
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I think fold is fine here
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thefishtank
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One Pair
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
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He might have A-8 LOL.
Seriously, i don't think recreational players are ever all in without the goods and recreational players are in love with any friggin Ace.
I can't make that fold but it looks like a fold given his weird chat line and his snap all in. Great job sir.
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baudib
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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That chat line makes me feel really good about snapfolding.
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Playing big pots at small stakes.
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Jarhead
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One Pair
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Gone Crazy
Posts: 22
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$70 on turn
fold river
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razvan729
the chance he got an A pre flop is under 0,1%
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what?
OP i'm conflicted over the turn, don't think its as fail as everyone else thinks but i think i certainly would at least make a small bet. River is of course a clear fold vs 46 combos of hands lol.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
River is of course a clear fold vs 46 combos of hands lol.
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What?
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OngBonga
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,054
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wtf call. Villain has busted hearts here more often than nuts, judging by his c/c on flop.
As for the chat, I honestly don't know how to interpret this, he could be talking you into folding an 8, which he thinks he chops with. My lack of experience might be telling when it comes to the chat read.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
ongies gonna ong
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baudib
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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I assume everyone is leveling in this thread by now but do any of you really have experience with a recreational player overbet shoving as a bluff in any spot, let alone to make you fold Aces full? I'm asking sincerely because I've never played NL600 so maybe recreational players with lots of money to burn are that much crazier at this level.
As for the chat I'd be a lot happier calling if he hadn't thrown in the "KK" line.
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Playing big pots at small stakes.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
What?
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sorry i meant 44 combos
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OngBonga
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baudib
...do any of you really have experience with a recreational player overbet shoving as a bluff in any spot....
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Not as these stakes, no. But at my level, this can often be a stupid attempt to steal a pot that villain thinks he's chopping, or possibly a pocket pair above 88 that he now thinks is good. It can also be an ace, of course, though I would question why an aggressive villain only flat calls trip aces on a 2tone flop. That's why I'm calling this, because I think he's narrowed down the number of times he has an ace here by his flop action, especially when he shoves river and shows us that he can indeed be highly aggressive. I don't expect to have the worst hand more than 50% of the time here, so calling seems ok to me.
But I am not taking into account the chat read. From my point of view, it can mean either or, he could be trying to induce a call or fold. I'm far from an expert at reading people from their chat comments though, I tend to ignore the chat at these times since it can be a distraction.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
ongies gonna ong
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baudib
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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He has totally discounted the fact that we might have the A or KK ourselves.
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Playing big pots at small stakes.
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EasyPoker
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 753
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I occasionally type stuff like "44" or "72" in the chat when I have 3bet with complete air. I type nothing in the chat box when I have the nuts...
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[20:19] <Zill4> god
[20:19] <Zill4> u guys
[20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
[20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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I think folding quads any any time is just throwing money away. Go ahead and calculate the odds of both having quads. I don't know what that is but I'll stack off on those odds every time and be happy.
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Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricE
I think folding quads any any time is just throwing money away. Go ahead and calculate the odds of both having quads. I don't know what that is but I'll stack off on those odds every time and be happy.
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the odds are like 4 to 1 in favor
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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After his chat I'd fold every time.
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
It can also be an ace, of course, though I would question why an aggressive villain only flat calls trip aces on a 2tone flop. That's why I'm calling this, because I think he's narrowed down the number of times he has an ace here by his flop action, especially when he shoves river and shows us that he can indeed be highly aggressive.
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Fish hate c/r'ing flops like this with what they perceive to be the nuts. "OMG c/r is the strongest line ever; OMG the best made hand he can have is like a pair of 8s."
As for preflop, a fish l/c'ing Ax is obviously the most standard thing in all of poker. As for the turn (when he now has aces full OOP without the initiative), checking should be no surprise.
So yes, he has Ax in his range.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas. |
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Huey_Freeman
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 53
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Fish would also be prepared to take the risk of the heart coming on the turn to (in their minds) extract more monies later.
LOL, re-reading the chat, he's clearly got an ace. Sick fold.
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