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3 100NL hands for review

  
 
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Parasurama
Old 11-22-2008, 03:10 AM     Post subject: 3 100NL hands for review #1 (permalink)  
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Villains are all unknown
Hand 1:
Comments on betsizing? turn check?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($60.85)
SB ($164.60)
Hero (BB) ($100)
UTG ($101)
UTG+1 ($21.40)
MP1 ($104.50)
MP2 ($142.95)
MP3 ($107.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, K
2 folds, MP1 calls $1, 2 folds, Button calls $1, SB calls $0.50, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, Button calls $5, 1 fold

Flop: ($14) Q, 10, K (2 players)
Hero bets $8.50, Button calls $8.50

Turn: ($31) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

River: ($31) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $16.70

Hand 2:
Like the 3-bet? Flop raise?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($98.50)
SB ($151.25)
BB ($108.70)
UTG ($87.35)
UTG+1 ($69.10)
MP1 ($101.50)
MP2 ($17)
MP3 ($70)
CO ($110.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, Q
2 folds, MP1 raises to $3.50, 1 fold, MP3 calls $3.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $9.50, 2 folds, MP1 calls $6, MP3 calls $6

Flop: ($30) 8, A, K (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP3 bets $10, Hero raises to $35,


Hand 3:
standard post-flop? preflop thoughts?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($62.10)
SB ($32.70)
Hero (BB) ($130.10)
UTG ($100)
MP1 ($34.30)
MP2 ($148.75)
MP3 ($153.20)
CO ($170.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, 4
4 folds, CO raises to $3.50, 1 fold, SB calls $3, Hero raises to $11, 1 fold, SB calls $7.50

Flop: ($25.50) 9, 9, 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $22,

Thanks in advance
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BankItDrew
Old 11-22-2008, 06:08 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1: Perfect

Hand 2: Gross 3bet... I make it closer to $15... anywhere between $12 and $15 I think would be good. Nothing wrong with scooping up what's in the pot already, it also defines our villains range better because I don't think I'm ever folding anything if I am either villain when it comes back to me.

Hand 3: You said you have zero reads on villains. Nuff said.


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badgers
Old 11-22-2008, 12:34 PM #3 (permalink)  
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1 good
2 agree with drew about 3bet sizing. I also really dont like a flop raise.
3 flop bet is waayyy big also 3bet size is on the small side as well.
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Parasurama
Old 11-22-2008, 02:57 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I was expecting that my 3-b in hand 2 would be criticized. As soon as I made it I realized it should have been larger. But then I've been thinking. When you 3-b at 100NL a lot of people instantly give you credit for AA,KK,AK. If I'm 3-betting light against these players, they'll be folding to a lot of 3-bets regardless of size as long as its significantly more than a minraise. If I have a read that people are folding to a lot of 3-bets, not that I did in any of these hands, can lowering the size of the 3-bet be profitable? Either way I think this 3-b is a little small.

The flop raise was mostly about villain's stack size, he had about $60 left I think. I wanted to show him that I wasn't folding. I also find that the donk lead against the 3-b when the A flops is either a weak ace hoping I had KK or a bluff hoping I had KK. I was confident I was ahead but do you think I could have extracted more?
EDIT: would apply if there wasn't a K on the flop

Hand 3, not sure what you mean BankItDrew, clarify?
Badgers, Villain had I think $21.80 so $22 put him in. I didn't think a bet of any other size would make sense, if he pushed over I would have thrown up having to call like $5 to win like $ 62. I thought the 3-b preflop was a little small as well just wanted to make sure. I've been experimenting with 3-betting a wider range and just trying different bet sizes. So far it's been really successful with nearly every bet size. I haven't tried the min 3-bet though<--------this play aggravates me so much!

I wish the hand converter would show everyone's stack sizes throughout the hand.
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badgers
Old 11-22-2008, 05:26 PM #5 (permalink)  
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sorry i was presuming full stacks. I don't like 3betting SCs when shorties are still in the hand, high card value becomes more important as stack sizes are smaller.

Hand 2 I don't really understand why you'd want to show villain you arent folding. Why do you want to take away all the bluffs from his range?
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XTR1000
Old 11-22-2008, 06:49 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I want to bet the turn in hand 1 with so many pr+sd in his range.

#2 What drew said. Also I don´t see a reason to raise the flop.

#3 I usually give up on this flop vs a shortstack. You have nada value vs almost all of his range and he doesnt fold a lot after cold calling twice preflop.
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Renton
Old 11-22-2008, 07:02 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 1 good
2 don't 3-bet preflop, don't raise flop
3 don't 3-bet preflop, bet less on flop

also how are you never having reads
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BankItDrew
Old 11-22-2008, 07:31 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
also how are you never having reads
13 tabling without PT or a HUD?


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Parasurama
Old 11-22-2008, 09:08 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
also how are you never having reads
13 tabling without PT or a HUD?
Haha, I don't use a HUD but I do have PT collecting hands while I play. I usually 8-table. I like to use personalized notes more than rely on stats. If it's a really tough spot I'll hit time and look up the player on PT. Do you guys think it's necessary to use a HUD? I just feel like all of the numbers would distract me. It was a coincidence that I didn't have notes on any of these villains.

Hand 1: Villain called and showed K9 and I took it down. This is a line I take somewhat frequently with this type of hand, just wanted to make sure you guys liked it. I was going for a check-raise on the turn because I put him on a hand that would be strong enough to bet in that spot but weaker than my AK. Also pot control if he checks behind. River bet was straight value, would have folded to a raise.

Hand 2: Villain folded pretty quickly to my flop raise. Since the flop was rainbow and the only straight draw was a gut shot I suppose I could have just called. If he checks turn after I call is a 3/5 pot bet good? Also, what I meant was that I wanted to show myself that I wasn't folding. I'm still getting used to the dynamic of 3-betting with a wider range and think I might have given him too much credit and talked myself into a fold later on. This is clearly not the way I should be thinking. I agree that I gave up some value on the hand. Renton, I normally never 3-b AQ in this spot but like I said I've been experimenting. I suppose I should stick to 3-b very strong hands and weak hands?

Hand 3: Villain folded instantly on flop. I wanted to either squeeze both players out or isolate the initial raiser (who was deep) with my 3-b preflop. Didn't notice/didn't care that SB was short, I was in hyperaggressive mode. I disagree that shortstacked villain isn't folding a lot to my flop bet. Since he's short, I assume he's bad, he might be calling the 3-b with a lot of medium pocket pairs that would fold to my represented overpair, also AK, AQ and since he's bad he's going to be more likely to fold hands he should call with. I thought this flop was very good to bet. Renton, bet less even considering his stack size?
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bigspenda73
Old 11-24-2008, 06:15 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 can someone explain to me why hand 1 is so good (referring to the turn check)
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bikes
Old 11-24-2008, 09:49 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
can someone explain to me why hand 1 is so good (referring to the turn check)
This. If you're gonna your gonna check anywhere it should be the river. Turn seems like an easy bet with all his pair+sd's.
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Renton
Old 11-24-2008, 05:50 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
can someone explain to me why hand 1 is so good (referring to the turn check)
generally when you can only get value from draws (that is, you can't get value from worse made hands which are way behind), you have to check.

Its a lot closer in this case though since its highly likely he has a pair + sd.

I could see betting.
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wakeup
Old 11-27-2008, 07:34 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
can someone explain to me why hand 1 is so good (referring to the turn check)
generally when you can only get value from draws (that is, you can't get value from worse made hands which are way behind), you have to check.
why?
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Renton
Old 11-27-2008, 07:41 AM #14 (permalink)  
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 pretty complicated answer

mostly due to the mathematics. If his calling range is {draws; made hands against which we are way behind} then chances are his range has the best of it, so betting is actually minus ev. Or at least its low enough ev that pot control is a more attractive option.
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Renton
Old 11-27-2008, 07:42 AM #15 (permalink)  
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 it also has a lot to do with the size of the pot. if the pot is small in relation to the stacks, then giving a free card isn't as damaging, whereas if theres half the pot left in the stacks then chances are you should just stick it in if you think your hand is usually good
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BankItDrew
Old 11-27-2008, 07:12 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
can someone explain to me why hand 1 is so good (referring to the turn check)
generally when you can only get value from draws (that is, you can't get value from worse made hands which are way behind), you have to check.

Its a lot closer in this case though since its highly likely he has a pair + sd.

I could see betting.
I'm less concerned with drawing hands than I am about pot control in Hand 1. My goal before the flop action is tho get 2 streets of value from villain. bet check line is the easiest way to accomplish this.


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CGKIII
Old 12-04-2008, 05:00 PM #17 (permalink)  

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Why are we settling for 2 streets of value in hand 1? Button starts the hand with 60 BB. I'm betting the flop for like, 12ish and probably overbet-shoving any turn that's not a 9/J/Q/A. Is that line really horrible? I think we get called enough from pair+oesd, JJ, enough to compensate for the times we're crushed or drawing to a better two-pair / broadway.
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wakeup
Old 12-04-2008, 10:30 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
it also has a lot to do with the size of the pot. if the pot is small in relation to the stacks, then giving a free card isn't as damaging, whereas if theres half the pot left in the stacks then chances are you should just stick it in if you think your hand is usually good
rightio, thanks rent
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