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2nd barrell with big draw???

  
 
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benny999
Old 06-21-2006, 01:23 AM     Post subject: 2nd barrell with big draw??? #1 (permalink)  
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These big draw hands OOP in a raised pot are giving me trouble. I usually fire the 2nd barrell and am either called again or min raised which gives me odds to call but if I wouldn't have bet I'd end up losing less when the draw misses, but also win less if it hits.

Is check/calling the turn better against an unknown opponent? In this hand I only had around 25 hands where villain was 14/5.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($61.50)
Button ($13.75)
SB ($61.15)
BB ($53.70)
UTG ($48.50)
Hero ($74.80)
MP2 ($35.94)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K, A. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, MP2 calls $2, 4 folds.

Flop: ($4.75) 3, 9, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $3, MP2 calls $3.

Turn: ($10.75) 6 (2 players)
Hero???
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givememyleg
Old 06-21-2006, 01:58 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 I like going another 5-6 here. You should know (or at least have a better idea) where you hand is after you fire again. You also have some FE firing again. If the falls on the river, it will be pretty hidden. Only problem is if he raises you correctly on the turn, you most likely have to let it go. But one way this can work for you is you can get a bad image to start and try to get people to run over you. If the river is a blank, I guess it depends on your read of villian for a third barrel - damn hard to do regardless. Him being an unknown, check/folding might be the best line in that situation. When I get into situations like this a lot of the times I am also left confused so I would really like to see what the more experienced have to say... FWIW I like betting this turn.

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IowaSkinsFan
Old 06-21-2006, 02:37 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 Yeah I'd bet Hard like the pot.
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WhooFleuryScores
Old 06-21-2006, 02:44 AM #4 (permalink)  
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I like a 2/3 to open push here.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-21-2006, 01:27 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhooFleuryScores
I like a 2/3 to open push here.
WTH is with you and open pushing?!

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You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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Warpe
Old 06-21-2006, 02:00 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 2nd barrel goot here. Your line doesn't say draw and if villain's on one he'll often give it up on the turn. Keep repping an overpair. I'd make it lucky $7 to go.



 
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Lukie
Old 06-21-2006, 03:16 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhooFleuryScores
I like a 2/3 to open push here.
?
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benny999
Old 06-22-2006, 12:22 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhooFleuryScores
I like a 2/3 to open push here.
Open push haha...u r joking right?

So I was bored and decided to do math, and even that confirms what everybody already wrote, although check/call vs betting were very close in EV. I've had a string of big draws that didn't hit lately, so it's good to know betting is good here in the long run, and therefore even better for an OESFD.
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drtofu66
Old 06-22-2006, 03:37 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Pretty much the same situation, but the TAG villain played back at me on the flop. Anything wrong here?

[Before you say "raise more preflop"-- I couldn't. This was Pot limit with only one BB posted, so the max betsize was only 3BB]. Gotta figure he caught his set and FH on the turn and I was drawing dead anyway...



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Pot Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.125/$0.25
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $36.95
UTG+1: $5.25
MP1: $20.35
MP2: $51.50
CO: $31.90
Button: $22.90
SB: $27.10
BB: $30.50

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG with K A
Hero raises to $0.75, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: T 5 2 ($3.13, 4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.5, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to $4, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 2 ($11.13, 2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $7, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $7 returned to MP2.

Results:
Final pot: $11.125
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benny999
Old 06-22-2006, 05:41 AM #10 (permalink)  
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open push flop :P. Seroiusly though, I wouldn't cbet with 3 others seeing flop and OOP. I think check/call is better for this flop, then check/fold turn without a good read, ie an approximate fold equity.

As played, your flop bet is too small if you want to fold hands like pocket pairs and probably even high cards. 2/3, even 3/4 to full pot is much more effective if you must cbet, in order to rep an overpair on a draw board. On the turn it looks more like villain has a pair with the size of his bet, but nonetheless folding seems the best move.
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