Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Full Ring NL Hold'em

  > 

25NL: Too aggressive vs shortstack?

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
d0zer
Old 01-03-2008, 03:35 AM     Post subject: 25NL: Too aggressive vs shortstack? #1 (permalink)  
d0zer's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
d0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the rough
 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

MP2 ($30.50)
CO ($36.90)
Button ($9.65)
Hero ($34.90)
BB ($25)
UTG ($20.50)
MP1 ($18.20)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , .
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, 2 folds, Button raises to $1, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, MP1 folds, Button calls $3.

Flop: ($8.50) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $10, Button calls $5.65 (All-In).

Turn: ($19.80) (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($19.80) (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $19.80

Shortie was unknown. Usually with unknowns I assume TAG until they give me a good reason to assume otherwise. Should I be assuming loose for shorties instead and slowing down on missed flops?
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Chopper
Old 01-03-2008, 02:36 PM #2 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
when he calls your 3bet, you have no FE left. he is short, he isnt folding his hand on a low flop. and, its likely a pp.

no, you shouldnt be assuming shorties are ALL loose. but, you should be slowing down against them on missed flops.

they call tight and push light.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
d0zer
Old 01-03-2008, 03:18 PM #3 (permalink)  
d0zer's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
d0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
when he calls your 3bet, you have no FE left.
I think that's what I needed to hear.

D'u think the 3bet was -EV OOP vs a tight shortie OR a loose shortie?
Reply With Quote
Chopper
Old 01-03-2008, 03:47 PM #4 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
neither. i think the flop push was -EV.

i think you must be 3betting AK against shorties. both kinds. hell, shove it pf, if you can against them.

short stacks are playing a pf and flop game. and, usually, they suck at it, too. they play too many draws for their strategy. the flop you picked had no draw on it, so the only hands calling beat you. i dont think short stacks would even continue to a push w/ KQ, AT+ here. you could have received much better information with a 2/3 pot bet on the flop. you would still fold the junk, and would be raised by most pp's allowing you to fold off.

the "looser" the shorty, the more inclined i am to push pre. but, i am rarely, if ever, open shoving this flop. i may cbet it small, but i am not playing for stacks.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
d0zer
Old 01-03-2008, 03:56 PM #5 (permalink)  
d0zer's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
d0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the rough
 Shortie's stack was 2/3rds of the pot on flop so if I was c-betting I was pushing him.

Check/fold flop I guess...
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 01-03-2008, 03:59 PM #6 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
Thats just terrible advice chopper.

Hero played it fine.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
Chopper
Old 01-03-2008, 04:13 PM #7 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
i'll take the "high road" here and ignore mentioning all your frustrated posts about "shorting" in spots just like these.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
spoonitnow
Old 01-03-2008, 04:29 PM #8 (permalink)  
spoonitnow's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
spoonitnow is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to spoonitnow Send a message via MSN to spoonitnow Send a message via Yahoo to spoonitnow Send a message via Skype™ to spoonitnow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
i'll take the "high road" here and ignore mentioning all your frustrated posts about "shorting" in spots just like these.
euphoricism is right, Hero played it fine post-flop.

Pre-flop I wouldn't 3-bet as much in this particular situation so that we set up more FE on the flop. I'd prefer for the effective stack sizes to be around the same size as the pot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
Reply With Quote
Chopper
Old 01-03-2008, 04:39 PM #9 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer
Shortie's stack was 2/3rds of the pot on flop so if I was c-betting I was pushing him.

Check/fold flop I guess...
i shouldnt have implied i was folding. thats not the case, you cant fold here. but, to extract any value out of this hand, you need to let HIM do the pushing, and hope you spike a "good" A or K to take the pot away.

his pp's arent folding here. but, if YOU do the pushing, you could drive off AT+, KQ, QJ...stuff that you beat that may bluff at you. hell, you may even minbet this flop to see if he raises you. either way, you are going to showdown with this. you just dont want to drive off weaker A's and K's.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
Silly String
Old 01-03-2008, 04:40 PM #10 (permalink)  
Silly String's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
Silly String
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
they call tight and push light.
I think you both might be missing Chopper's point. He is basically saying anything that calls your push has you beat, but worse hands may push if you c/c.
This would trap more money in the pot when ahead, and it's not like we mind seeing a free card here. I agree with him. I think an open push is OK, but a c/c is better.

I wouldn't 3bet this situation if we can get the SS all in anyway post flop. With the limper, an smaller isolation raise($3) as proposed by spoonitnow is probably best.

**EDIT** Nevermind he came back and posted a reply before me.
Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
 
Reply With Quote
d0zer
Old 01-03-2008, 06:22 PM #11 (permalink)  
d0zer's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
d0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Pre-flop I wouldn't 3-bet as much in this particular situation so that we set up more FE on the flop. I'd prefer for the effective stack sizes to be around the same size as the pot.
That's interesting...more food for thought. I was just thinking: "OOP? 3-ball!"
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:08 AM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.