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25nl line check, flopped str8

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dev

03-16-2008, 02:58 AM Post subject: 25nl line check, flopped str8

#1 (permalink)

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I took a really passive line on this one.
On the flop because I wanted to see what action I could dig up from behind.
On the turn because I wanted to look like a flush draw. That way I can move in on the river and it looks like a bluff, unfortunately the flush card came. Keep in mind I didn't think this guy had a flush draw earlier on, it's just that pairing the board scares me a bit since his line was so strong.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($16.90)
SB ($38.35)
Hero ($25)
UTG ($4.15)
UTG+1 ($11.30)
MP1 ($34.55)
MP2 ($24.50)
CO ($15.35)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9

, J

.
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1.25) T

, K

, Q

(5 players)
SB bets $1, Hero calls $1, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: ($3.25) 8

(2 players)
SB bets $2, Hero raises to $5.5, SB raises to $9, Hero calls $3.50.

River: ($21.25) Q

(2 players)
SB bets $7, Hero calls $7.

Final Pot: $35.25

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d0zer

03-16-2008, 03:24 PM

#2 (permalink)

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I think it's a mistake to let a river card fall. There's tons of cards that would shut one or both of you down.

SB looks like he's good to go on the turn so....giver!

I also bet the flop for basically the same reason.

spoonitnow

03-16-2008, 03:48 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Outsmarted yourself instead of villain

Raise the flop ffs

dev

03-16-2008, 07:11 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Raise the flop ffs

So I flop 2nd nuts 5-way and I want to isolate the first guy with a chance at it? if there's an AK,KQ,TT,KT or QT behind me I get a raise, then we can play a big pot. I know it's a dangerous situation, but I can get away cheap if someone calls behind and there's a spade on the turn (only ~20%).
All those limpers on a board like that... if I'm up against AJ, I'm broke anyway. If they have a flush draw they're not likely to fold it since it's probably a gut-shot as well.

Also, given the screwy way the hand was played, how's my river flat call?

Check out my self-deprecation here!

Fnord

03-16-2008, 08:38 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Why did you see a river with money behind?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

spoonitnow

03-16-2008, 09:37 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dev

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Raise the flop ffs

You're not isolating here on the flop, you're protecting your hand. Calling sucks sooooooooooo bad. Instead of being worried about "getting away cheap if a spade comes on the turn" you should be more concerned with getting enough money in that it doesn't matter if a spade comes or not.

spoonitnow

03-16-2008, 09:47 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dev

All those limpers on a board like that... if I'm up against AJ, I'm broke anyway. If they have a flush draw they're not likely to fold it since it's probably a gut-shot as well.

I feel the need to elaborate just a little here. But first, a short rant.

RAISE THE FUCKING FLOP JESUS FUCKING CHRIST COCKFUCK

Okay I'm cool. You have a made hand. You must make a +EV play, not a play that makes you feel safe and secure.

eugmac

03-16-2008, 10:27 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Posts: 739

Quote:

All those limpers on a board like that... if I'm up against AJ, I'm broke anyway. If they have a flush draw they're not likely to fold it since it's probably a gut-shot as well.

Yes, we went the flush draw to come along of course, so you raise, and make them make a mistake. If you do as you did and give a cheap turn card to a potential flush draw, you are the one making a catatrophic mistake.

dev

03-16-2008, 10:58 PM

#9 (permalink)

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Button ($22.80)
SB ($28.50)
BB ($12.65)
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($17.70)
MP1 ($29.25)
MP2 ($24)
MP3 ($5)
Hero ($51.75)

Preflop: Hero is CO with

. UTG posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG (poster) checks, 4 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, Button calls $1.25, 2 folds, UTG folds.

Flop: ($3.10)

(2 players)
Hero bets $2.5, Button raises to $5, Hero calls $2.50.

Turn: ($13.10)

(2 players)
Hero bets $7, Button calls $7.

River: ($27.10)

(2 players)
Hero bets $10, Button folds.

Final Pot: $27.10

So the lesson here is, play your hands face-up and you get action anyway?

Ok, got it... the above is the last time I slowplay a flopped straight at microstakes.

Check out my self-deprecation here!

spoonitnow

03-16-2008, 11:44 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Posts: 5,406

Quote:

Originally Posted by dev

So the lesson here is, play your hands face-up and you get action anyway?

Ok, got it... the above is the last time I slowplay a flopped straight at microstakes.

A raise on the original hand could be a number of hands. As you put it "play your hands face-up" isn't exactly an issue in the majority of spots. You should think more in terms of odds-based mistakes instead. For example, on the flop for the hand in this post, you should re-raise the flop so that flush draws, two pairs and sets have to call another bet before they see another card.

The bet-sizing should also reflect thinking in terms of odds-based mistakes -- that is, you should size your bets so that they encourage your opponents to make mistakes. When you do this correctly, you don't have to worry about things like "keeping your opponents in" or "pushing your opponents out" because it's all built in.

As far as the bet-sizing goes, you should bet the turn a bit harder in this second hand. You're giving villain 3:1 to call. If he hits his flush, it's doubtful that you could get away from putting another $8 in the pot -- but that's all he has to extract when he hits on the river to make a call on the turn correct for him. On the other hand, if you bet the turn too hard (say you make an overbet of $20), then it's too easy for him to get away from his draws (the idea is that you're not getting him to make a mistake).

A bet of around $10.50 seems about right. If you bet exactly $10.50, villain is getting about 2.2:1 pot odds, and he needs a little better than 4:1 implied odds to make his draw profitable, so he'll have to win an additional $19 from you when he hits to make the call about break even, but he only has another $10.80 behind on the river making it impossible for his call to be profitable.

Isn't that awesome? If the dude called $7, he'll be calling $10.50 most of the time, so by a small change in betting amount on the turn we go from giving our opponent a +EV option (calling is +EV for him there since we can't get away on the river) and switch it up so that he has no +EV play.

wesrman

03-17-2008, 01:55 AM

#11 (permalink)

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[quote="spoonitnow"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dev

Isn't that awesome? If the dude called $7, he'll be calling $10.50 most of the time, so by a small change in betting amount on the turn we go from giving our opponent a +EV option (calling is +EV for him there since we can't get away on the river) and switch it up so that he has no +EV play.

Nice Spoon.
This is good stuff, and something i have to work on learning.
Thanks..

dev

03-17-2008, 02:28 AM

#12 (permalink)

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[quote=wesrman]/

Quote:

Originally Posted by "spoonitnow"/

Quote:

Originally Posted by dev

Nice Spoon.
This is good stuff, and something i have to work on learning.
Thanks..

careful, if you keep doing this people might start listening to me instead of spoon!

Thanks, spoon, this was really helpful. I remember some of this from T&P, I'm going to have to get that back from a friend and re-read it.

Check out my self-deprecation here!

wesrman

03-17-2008, 03:59 AM

#13 (permalink)

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[quote=dev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wesrman

Quote:

Originally Posted by "spoonitnow"/

Quote:

Originally Posted by dev

Nice Spoon.
This is good stuff, and something i have to work on learning.
Thanks..

Lol, awesome.

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