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JinxT4
Old 06-11-2008, 11:15 PM     Post subject: 25NL hand #1 (permalink)  
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Session review partner suggested that I post this hand on FTR.

No notes on villain, I had only been @ the table for an orbit or 2.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($50)
UTG+1 ($57.65)
MP1 ($25.70)
MP2 ($24.60)
Hero ($46.30)
Button ($27.35)
SB ($25.20)
BB ($54.75)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, Q.
UTG calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, Button calls $1.25, 2 folds, UTG calls $1.

Flop: ($4.10) 9, 3, J (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $3, Button folds, UTG calls $3.

Turn: ($10.10) T (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $6, UTG calls $6.

River: ($22.10) A (2 players)
UTG bets $15.25, Hero ?????

Call? Fold? Shove? What's the best river action here?
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BankItDrew
Old 06-11-2008, 11:36 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 shove allllllll day

you're only loosing to a flush and most players are bad enough to bet this big on the river and call a shove with weaker hands than the ace high straight.


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Fnord
Old 06-11-2008, 11:59 PM #3 (permalink)  
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edit: misread the hand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Deanglow
Old 06-12-2008, 12:03 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Check the turn too.
What? I think this is absolutely terrible. And shove the river is good.
 
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BankItDrew
Old 06-12-2008, 12:26 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 We have to assume villain doesn't have a flush here because it's the best way to make the most out of our big hands.

The worst way to get this all in eventually, is by checking the turn. That turn card is so beautiful because it gives us the lead while also improving our villains hand often. I can see a lot of queens and tens that call that flop bet.

The biggest reason I don't check that turn is because:

Let's assume villain has a really good hand (lower straight, set, 2 pair etc.). If we go to a river card against this group of hands, I can think of about 30 cards that could be considered scare cards for one or both of us. cards that pair the board, clubs, kings, queens, sevens, eights etc. It just kills the action in most cases.


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ATOTHEC101
Old 06-12-2008, 11:57 AM #6 (permalink)  
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wow, i disagree with you there fnord, i dont get why we would ever, ever check the turn when weve effectively hit our gin card and will get tons of value from worse hand by betting on the turn. Also as drew mentioned there are tons of river cards that scare both us and the villain if we check the turn. As played i think id only call this river, as he could easily have a slowplayed flush as his weird out of knowhere big river bet rings alarm bells with me as if hes trying to make up for lost value.Tho maybe thats to nitty as he could also be betting this with aj,a10 with the ace clubs.
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badgers
Old 06-12-2008, 12:13 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Fnord either misread or is on a completely different level and I'm not sure which it is...

I bet turn always.
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Fnord
Old 06-12-2008, 12:29 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I misread the hand. Yeah, bet lots of money.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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JinxT4
Old 06-12-2008, 07:14 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
wow, i disagree with you there fnord, i dont get why we would ever, ever check the turn when weve effectively hit our gin card and will get tons of value from worse hand by betting on the turn. Also as drew mentioned there are tons of river cards that scare both us and the villain if we check the turn. As played i think id only call this river, as he could easily have a slowplayed flush as his weird out of knowhere big river bet rings alarm bells with me as if hes trying to make up for lost value. Tho maybe thats to nitty as he could also be betting this with aj,a10 with the ace clubs.
This is what I was thinking. I figured his range was flopped flushes, sets, & 2pair hands (AJ being most likely).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
We have to assume villain doesn't have a flush here because it's the best way to make the most out of our big hands.
It just seems like I have to at least put flopped flushes in his range. Just out of curiosity, do you call if he open shoves for ~$35 (he has me covered, but that's about what I have left) on the river?

Fwiw, I don't think I'd ever shove here, especially since we're both 200bb deep, just in case he did flop a flush (in which I could've been drawing dead on the flop). When I shove for value, I try to have hands closer to the nuts. I'd never fold here either. Since I'm a nit , calling seemed like the only option to me.

Results (in white):
*** SHOW DOWN ***
UTG: shows [Tc 8c] (a flush, Jack high)
Hero: mucks hand
UTG collected $50.05 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $52.60 | Rake $2.55
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