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jackvance
Old 05-09-2006, 12:56 PM     Post subject: 23s #1 (permalink)  
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 Just had a guy suck out on me, so I was half-stacked. My reasoning in this hand was that, since I flopped 2 pair, that I'd bet it relatively hard, because people at 10NL love to gamble on their gutshot (with a 4 or a 5) or stick to their Ace. With the hand before in memory, I atleast wanted to make people pay to suck out on me. Any advice welcome on how you would have played this hand.

** Game ID 786360958 starting - 2006-05-09 14:43:06
** Brockley [Hold 'em] (0.05|0.10 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- lillegull sitting in seat 1 with $7.20
- snookmaster sitting in seat 2 with $12.15
- kenylen sitting in seat 3 with $9.80
- jackvance sitting in seat 4 with $4.75
- wwh123 sitting in seat 5 with $6.35
- kylescash sitting in seat 6 with $3.15 [Dealer]

lillegull posted the small blind - $0.05
snookmaster posted the big blind - $0.10
** Dealing card to jackvance: 3 of Hearts, 2 of Hearts
kenylen called - $0.10
jackvance called - $0.10
wwh123 folded
kylescash called - $0.10
lillegull called - $0.10
snookmaster checked

** Dealing the flop: Ace of Hearts, 2 of Spades, 3 of Diamonds
lillegull checked
snookmaster checked
kenylen bet - $0.10
jackvance raised - $0.80
kylescash folded
lillegull called - $0.80
snookmaster folded
kenylen called - $0.80

** Dealing the turn: King of Hearts
lillegull checked
kenylen checked
jackvance bet - $1.50
lillegull called - $1.50
kenylen folded

** Dealing the river: 10 of Diamonds
lillegull bet - $2.90

hm? Well call this ofcourse, but what to make of this play?
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biondino
Old 05-09-2006, 02:18 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Why not push the turn? You know you're taking this all the way whatever happens.
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givememyleg
Old 05-09-2006, 02:48 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I vote push turn.

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Muxy
Old 05-09-2006, 04:09 PM #4 (permalink)  
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- jackvance sitting in seat 4 with $4.75

RELOAD FULL.

MAXIMUM VALUE
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martindcx1e
Old 05-09-2006, 04:32 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muxy
- jackvance sitting in seat 4 with $4.75

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i think maybe he wasn't able to do that in time - perhaps the suckout was the previous hand?
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Khabbi
Old 05-09-2006, 04:37 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I find that with 2 players still in the hand that I'm very reluctant to bet only 1/2 pot. If the first player calls, it automatically gives great odds to the 2nd player to make the call with a wide variety of made hands or even draws.

I would have bet the pot on the turn, but with your short stack, you are committed to you have to push all-in.
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jackvance
Old 05-10-2006, 01:08 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 Well I called, and thank god I hadn't had time to reload because he had flopped the nuts (45o). So my instinct turned out to be correct.. but granted, I was in the "too fearful mood" b/c of all the bad luck that kept happening. I remember myself thinking, on the flop "no doubt someone flopped the straight here.. but come on Jack, you have two pair, don't play scared! The odds reset every time!" hehe..

Btw I don't always rebuy full when I lose.. sometimes my confidence is a bit low so I just stay lowstacked then. When my confidence is higher, I'll reload asap though. So even if I had had the chance here (which I didn't as far as I remember) I don't think I would have.

But yeah I just wanted to know if it was ok to basically go all-in here. Thx for the answers.
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Knytestorme
Old 05-10-2006, 01:40 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
With the hand before in memory, I atleast wanted to make people pay to suck out on me. Any advice welcome on how you would have played this hand.
Best advice I can give is to remember each hand is played in a vacuum. Soon as you fold a hand or the hand is over it should be forgotten, there should be no such thing as "the hand before" in your memory until the end of the night when you go through HH's and look for things to learn from.

Apart from that the only thing I can see (given hindsight of course and apart from wtf you were playing that hand for anyway) is that you've been smoothcalled twice here by someone showing weakness by checking ahead and then they lead out at you. This to me indicates that he knows he has you beat and wants to make sure you don't just check it down by getting his value bet out there.

What you do from there comes down to reads, such as could he be playing Ax and be unsure of his kicker and trying to force you out? Does he A2 or A3, is he on QJ and hit his straight, can you put him on AK, KT, AT or 45? Any of these hands have you beat at the river and are all plausible hands for him to be on. For me, this would be a laydown as the only thing you beat here really is a pair and given his play, even if you put him on only an A up till hte river, his push there shows that the T was most likely a help and thus your two pair are behind again.

I think the only way you can make this call is if you can put him on A4-A9 and he has shown a willingness before to overplay TPWK.

Having said that, I do agree with the previous comments that if you know you're going to go all the way on the river if he pushes then may as well beat him to it, push the turn after he checks again and possibly get him to lay down TPWK there.
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ihategnomes
Old 05-10-2006, 03:09 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Best advice I can give is to remember each hand is played in a vacuum. Soon as you fold a hand or the hand is over it should be forgotten, there should be no such thing as "the hand before" in your memory until the end of the night when you go through HH's and look for things to learn from.
How do you develop reads on players if you immediately forget hands after you play them.
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Jimmy Mac
Old 05-10-2006, 03:16 AM #10 (permalink)  
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I'm not sure about the preflop call, 32s is a bit low for a suited connector, and your position isn't too good. Also, you only have 50BB. This cuts down the implied odds you need when you play these speculative hands.
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Knytestorme
Old 05-10-2006, 03:43 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
How do you develop reads on players if you immediately forget hands after you play them.
It's a different thing. Players betting patterns and habits don't change, but you shouldn't play crap suited cards just because the last few hands you lost to flushes so it must be your time, etc
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ihategnomes
Old 05-10-2006, 04:09 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Nor did I say it would.
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jackvance
Old 05-10-2006, 11:01 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knytestorme
Players betting patterns and habits don't change, but you shouldn't play crap suited cards just because the last few hands you lost to flushes so it must be your time, etc
Eh, I always play crap suited cards, my preflop game hadn't changed.

That is to say, I play all the standard suited connectors and 1-gappers (from 53s and 54s up), I toss 23s more often than not, but this was a table full of limpers so I figured, why not.
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