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200nl, we river top 2 pair and face shove

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KillsAids

08-20-2009, 09:57 AM Post subject: 200nl, we river top 2 pair and face shove

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2008

Location: Paris, France

Posts: 120

Opponent is FakieThis, 13/11 type of reg. Folds 60% to 3bets but idk how much of those IP/OOP. Can I find a fold here knowing there's 1 combo of AA one combo of KK? He's extremely unlikely to shove other sets given that I could have AA/KK myself a large percentage of the time. So basically AA/KK/QJ, and is QJ even in his range?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($349.45)
UTG+1 ($90.35)
MP1 ($200)
MP2 ($184.05)
CO ($435.10)
Hero (Button) ($292.45)
SB ($217)
BB ($430.85)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K

, A

2 folds, MP1 bets $5, 2 folds, Hero raises to $17, 2 folds, MP1 calls $12

Flop: ($37) 9

, 10

, 5

(2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($37) A

(2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $23, MP1 calls $23

River: ($83) K

(2 players)
MP1 bets $160 (All-In), Hero?

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badgers

08-20-2009, 10:41 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Wait, do you really check back flop here with KK+? I find it highly unlikely and idk if you would bet KK on the turn having played the flop this way.. I really think you would bet flop especially with AA so I don't really think sets are in your range. You look exactly like the hand you have and he is shoving for value.

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BankItDrew

08-20-2009, 10:47 AM

#3 (permalink)

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BankItDrew will become famous soon enough

I can't see him having anything less than QJ here because it's so bloody obvious that you have top two pair.

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badgers

08-20-2009, 11:22 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

I can't see him having anything less than 99 here because it's so bloody obvious that you have top two pair.

21MaX21

08-20-2009, 02:37 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by badgers

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

I can't see him having anything less than 99 here because it's so bloody obvious that you have top two pair.

!!! 99 - 1010 slowplay on this line is sick Badgers ! Checking the flush draw with a set here is not stupid at all because villain is putting you on a high AK, QQ, KK, AA range...(ONly 1 drawing combo out of 10) And since your range can be easily limited to AK after flop and turn, he can overbet the river and get a call most of the time... I hardly see you slowplaying AA or KK here... Villain made a good play and got rewarded with a nice turn and river !

21MaX21

08-20-2009, 02:44 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2009

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That call on the turn still seems very weird for the 99 - 1010 slowplay line ... QJ maybe ... What's your preflop 3bet% ?

BankItDrew

08-20-2009, 07:05 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Let's assume for a second that villain is decent and doesn't play this hand like a retard on the turn with a set.

21MaX21

08-20-2009, 07:19 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Ok then, if we assume that, would he call preflop with QJ ??

BankItDrew

08-20-2009, 07:21 PM

#9 (permalink)

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It was a very small 3bet preflop and the effective stack is 100bb... so I don't think it's out of the question.

Miffed22001

08-20-2009, 10:17 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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We need specifics to tell us villain is calling 3bets with QJ preflop - so i think while it might be in his range its a very small proportion.

I think there are a lot of sets out on this board and we arent beating too many hands that might take a look at the flop - based on your 3bet size id probably take 99/TT to the flop - maybe not as standard but certainly sometimes depending on our image etc. You also 3bet a relative EP raise so its not unlikely he flats with AA/KK

Nobody has mentioned a split yet? Id fold this but id be looking for similar plays - without doing the math on the range of hands he likely has i think its a trivial math fold but rightly his line makes no sense so lots of people want to call - my experience of that is that if i dont get his line, he played a big hand weird.

Id say he has KK - and id fold the river sharpish

pokerfan

08-21-2009, 03:39 AM

#11 (permalink)

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your AK got crushed here most of the time.

KillsAids

08-21-2009, 08:36 AM

#12 (permalink)

Straight

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Location: Paris, France

Posts: 120

i dont really know what he can call with OOP preflop. Also I don't think my 3b is small... it's 3.5x IP. It ended up being small in $ value because he opened to $5 instead of 6 or 8. I also doubt he plays a set like this...

Should I basically just put him on 1 or 2 combos or fold? At the moment of the hand I figured QJ beat me but that it was very unlikely he called the 3b with it, and I figured AA/KK are just 2 combos only that he's repping.

ZwiFT

08-21-2009, 10:13 AM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

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Gotta laugh when people say QJ is in his range here. First of all its most likely not in his preflop range, 2nd of all its not in his 3b calling range OOP to a 3b vs his EP raise.

I see the same mistake in so many posts, you dont post your own stats which is of great importance when your making your mind up playing vs regs/tagfish. What is your precived 3b range in this spot? Whats your 3b%, Whats your f4b% thus far.

A big question is, is this opponent tricky or straigh forward? And whats his 4b%

I would almost always fold in this spot and i would need alot of good reads on him to make this a call. Even tho your hand is face up by this point i dont see many abc players at 200nl doing this with Ak to avoid split. Judging by his preflop stats he doesnt seem like a tricky player. A split is basicly what you are calling for. A huge deviation call to make 41.5$ and risking 160$, that at this point also seem like a -ev call.

daven

08-21-2009, 11:45 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

I can't see him having anything less than QJ here because it's so bloody obvious that you have top two pair.

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

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BankItDrew

08-21-2009, 08:26 PM

#15 (permalink)

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I guess you folded.

Benzooka

08-21-2009, 08:43 PM

#16 (permalink)

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Posts: 35

seems like 99/TT to me. He's nitty. They always want you to call, and are always scared until they have a set or greater.

Thought process:
Pre: I'll bet a little bit smaller to *cue misused term* "pot control" for a smaller sized pot. Hehe. Ohh three bet, well 12 dollars, he'll probably get it in if I hit. Everyones dumb except me. I am so smrt.
Flop: Holy balls I'm unstopable, there's no way I'm beat(actually true). He's betting any of his over pairs, and probably cbet AK. I'll check to him. WHAT A STOOGE TO PLAY AGAINST ME!
Turn: He didn't bet flop... must have nothing... AK fo sho - I'll slowplay.
Bet. Hmmm I'll just call.
River: KING!!!!
O
M
F
G
I've got a broner, he's never getting away from this. Shoves while diong pushups, inbetween his cartwheels and fist pumps.

If you planned to "suck out" you did the first half.

BankItDrew

08-21-2009, 09:01 PM

#17 (permalink)

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lmao....

nice avatar btw

post more

KillsAids

08-21-2009, 09:48 PM

#18 (permalink)

Straight

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Location: Paris, France

Posts: 120

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

I guess you folded.

i tanked forever, sat out on all the tables, timebanked forever and called. He showed QJ and i snap ended the session. It just didnt make sense to me and he was repping such an extremely narrow range

BankItDrew

08-21-2009, 10:55 PM

#19 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

I can't see him having anything less than QJ here because it's so bloody obvious that you have top two pair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZwiFT

Gotta laugh when people say QJ is in his range here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillsAids

He showed QJ

zomgwtfpwnd

Learn to hand read, n00b.

NEXT!

wufwugy

08-22-2009, 03:30 AM

#20 (permalink)

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This is fullring, only the best don't have the nuts when they overbet

ZwiFT

08-22-2009, 06:17 AM

#21 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2007

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

I can't see him having anything less than QJ here because it's so bloody obvious that you have top two pair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZwiFT

Gotta laugh when people say QJ is in his range here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillsAids

He showed QJ

zomgwtfpwnd

Learn to hand read, n00b.

NEXT!

I thought u knew better than to be result oriented

BankItDrew

08-22-2009, 06:36 AM

#22 (permalink)

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I just thought your comment was a tad arrogant.

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200nl, we river top 2 pair and face shove

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