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Halv
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10-12-2006, 02:10 AM
Post subject: 200NL KK vs action on 4way drawheavy flop
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#1 (permalink)
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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Button is 30/5 and very passive postflop over 250 hands.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
Button ($197)
SB ($198)
BB ($295.33)
UTG ($296.42)
UTG+1 ($197)
Hero ($226.95)
MP2 ($56.90)
CO ($198.70)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with  ,  . SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $9, 1 fold, CO calls $9, Button calls $9, 2 folds, UTG calls $7.
Flop: ($39)  ,  ,  (4 players)
UTG bets $30, Hero raises to $94, CO folds, Button raises $188 (All-In), UTG folds, Hero cries tears of blood.
KK no goot?
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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lol @ crying action.
I think you have to raise more preflop to minimize the # of players you'll be playing against postflop. This point is one I'd like to add along with your KQd hand in the other thread.
Another option here is to minraise this flop bet because you'd then be potting it, and decreasing odds from the players to act after you. betting 42bb seems to pot commit yourself against anyone raising with a 100bb stack. My point here is that you'd gain the same information from the button by making this bet, making it easier to fold. Here, this is a call because it's only $94 for a showdown when the pot is $351.
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yorib
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oak Park, IL
Posts: 281
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I wonder if you're pot committed and should call regardless.
Given that you're betting $100 to win $500. You're likely up against a 2 pair (getting the right odds), combo draw (right odds), set (wrong odds).
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Blinky
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10-12-2006, 04:58 AM
Post subject: Re: 200NL KK vs action on 4way drawheavy flop
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#4 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: nutpeddlers anonymous
Posts: 459
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by HalvSame
Button is ... very passive postflop over 250 hands.
KK no goot?
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KK no goot, or BN picked a perfect time to bluff/semibluff. Were you playing against Nutsinho? ;D
I probably cry and muck this unless I think BN will overplay a weak overpair or is capable of such a big semibluff.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
We will not support your pocket pair aggression.
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DaHorror
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 616
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Given the action there's no way KK is good...only question is whether or not he has two pair/combo draw/QQ/JJ or a set...I'm guessing it's the set but that's based on...nothing much 
I think this is one of those spots where you can shout obscenities and fold despite pot odds.
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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Considering how much money is in this pot, you simply must call this bet. Now lets go back to that first part, how much money is in this pot. That is your fault, you bet 4.5BB preflop, I actually like that bet and I disagree that it is too little at this level (I play this level).
The turn is the problem, there is absolutely no reason for you to go buckwild on this flop. I know there are a lot of draws out there, but that doesnt mean you have to go apeshiiit on the pot. Call a big bet or if no one bets before you bet about 3/4 the pot. Keep the pot low so that you actually have leverage to fold if someone pushes you hard.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dpe8598
The turn is the problem, there is absolutely no reason for you to go buckwild on this flop. I know there are a lot of draws out there, but that doesnt mean you have to go apeshiiit on the pot. Call a big bet or if no one bets before you bet about 3/4 the pot. Keep the pot low so that you actually have leverage to fold if someone pushes you hard.
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I call this slowplaying. Either you have the best hand or you don't, so bet accordingly. Our hand is not likely to improve, but 2 cards for 3 other players will.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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fold
we'll find better spots whether we are good or not.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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I think that with my impression of the button this is a set 9 out of 10 times. So I did I fold. And foul words came out of my mouth. Then I got to play some big pots because some other guys at the table thought I could be pushed around, so I guess the flop bet was not wasted after all.
Folding made me cry inside though, so I'm looking for an alternative way to play this post flop. Drews minraise option is tempting.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by HalvSame
Drews minraise option is going to get us stacked
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You played it fine. If someone comes over the top here without having you beaten then they need to know you can find a fold. Would you not raise with a set here anyway? So really where is the difference? We defended our hand and got told KK no goot.
This is one of those situations where pot odds<reads. Anything hes going to push with here has us drawing to 2 outs of gambOOling. I like being in neither spot if i can help it.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Is this a call with Kh in your hand?
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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With the Kh in my hand this is an easier fold imho.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HalvSame
Drews minraise option is going to get us stacked
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If you want to play this hand to the river, expect to have someone put their stack in by the end. This is a big pot and should not be slowplayed because of the # of players plaing (half the table). Fold or raise.
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