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200nl, JJ plus oesd, cbet raised in 3bet pot

  
 
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gametight
Old 07-14-2008, 10:23 PM     Post subject: 200nl, JJ plus oesd, cbet raised in 3bet pot #1 (permalink)  
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villain is standard TAG. 13/11/30

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 ($87.45)
CO ($299.05)
Button ($256.60)
SB ($45)
Hero ($501.35)
UTG ($276.10)
MP1 ($206)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J.
4 folds, Button raises to $7, 1 fold, Hero raises to $24, Button calls $17.

Flop: ($49) T, 9, 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $34, Button raises to $90, Hero raises to $477.35, Button calls $142.60 (All-In).

Turn: ($758.95) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($758.95) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $514.

Standard?
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Fnord
Old 07-14-2008, 10:36 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Yup, you're playing abig pot here.
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ATOTHEC101
Old 07-15-2008, 12:44 AM #3 (permalink)  
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well your nearly always behind here and are drawing to a max of 10 outs as his range is predominantly bigger overpairs and sets. Call me a nit but id go right ahead and fold to this raise as i dont wanna be getting a whole stack in as a 65/35 underdog imo.
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badgers
Old 07-15-2008, 12:48 AM #4 (permalink)  
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yeah i don't hate a fold if he's nitty

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

29,700 games 0.005 secs 5,940,000 games/sec

Board: Th 9s 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.375% 34.24% 02.14% 10169 634.50 { JcJs }
Hand 1: 63.625% 61.49% 02.14% 18262 634.50 { 88+, AsKs, AsQs }


---

35,640 games 0.046 secs 774,782 games/sec

Board: Th 9s 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.402% 41.52% 01.88% 14798 670.50 { JcJs }
Hand 1: 56.598% 54.72% 01.88% 19501 670.50 { 77+, AsKs, AsQs }


---

any sort of history and it has to go in though i think.
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pokerfan
Old 07-15-2008, 12:54 AM #5 (permalink)  
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JJ is around 35% equity against 88-TT,QQ+ ,AQs+ and QJs on this flop. So i dont like this shove at all
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elipsesjeff
Old 07-15-2008, 01:09 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
Call me a nit but id go right ahead and fold to this raise as i dont wanna be getting a whole stack in as a 65/35 underdog imo.
folding for 199 to win 371 seems pretty gross after leading here in blind war.


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badgers
Old 07-15-2008, 01:18 AM #7 (permalink)  
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looks more like calling 199 to win 320ish if i can add up
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pokerfan
Old 07-15-2008, 01:25 AM #8 (permalink)  
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shove is bad cuz hero gotta put $199 more to win only $314. This is a flat call and reevaluate on the turn. Hint: check/fold to his push on the turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
Call me a nit but id go right ahead and fold to this raise as i dont wanna be getting a whole stack in as a 65/35 underdog imo.
folding for 199 to win 371 seems pretty gross after leading here in blind war.
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Renton
Old 07-15-2008, 01:29 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 i guess this is all right

there are merits to c/c as well
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jimmy44
Old 07-15-2008, 08:36 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 $314 to win $199 = 1.58 to 1 where we need have around 38.7% of equity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfan
JJ is around 35% equity against 88-TT,QQ+ ,AQs+ and QJs on this flop. So i dont like this shove at all
Let's add KQs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 77 and we might have enough equity (I don't have pokerstove here)
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daven
Old 07-15-2008, 09:51 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 any other stats? 13-11 types don't normally call the steal 3-bet without some kind of hand. When he re-raises you're behind a lot - you're repping an overpair at least here and he still wants to mix things up, guess it could be that you're up against villain drawing to 15 outs (AsKs/AsQs), but more likely an overpair and you're drawing to ten outs? Calling is gross cos the pot is then almost twice your effective stack with two streets left to play. Push if you think you have any fold equity (but you don't!) or fold, I prefer a fold.

More important question, do you think that leading the flop is the best line here?
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pokerfan
Old 07-15-2008, 02:33 PM #12 (permalink)  
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i dont think it improves hero's equity in this spot unless villain is a total donk or an idiot.Any decent regulars probably only raise sets, very strong nuts combo flush draw or bigger overpairs in 3 bet pot. Villain's less than 3x flop raise just gave us good express odds, so i have no problem taking it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy44
$314 to win $199 = 1.58 to 1 where we need have around 38.7% of equity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfan
JJ is around 35% equity against 88-TT,QQ+ ,AQs+ and QJs on this flop. So i dont like this shove at all
Let's add KQs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 77 and we might have enough equity (I don't have pokerstove here)
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elipsesjeff
Old 07-15-2008, 04:07 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 shouldn't you be adding some of his connector type hands here? QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s?


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pgil
Old 07-15-2008, 05:11 PM #14 (permalink)  
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I've seen 13/11 type guys put me on missed overs here and try to push me out with an AK/AQ type of hand. adding in all of the suited connectors and such surely makes this fine.

Adding in a couple of AT type of hands to the mix really increases your equity a lot as well. Once any hand with any sort of shot at winning this pot raises, calling the push is pretty well automatic on opps part.

when you 3bet and then cbet a low flop, as long as you aren't a complete nit and have shown at least some sort of ability/desire to defend blinds in the past, you are no longer repping only strong hands, your range is as wide as it ever was. Especially since we are oop. not many people are 3betting light against a lp steal, then c/f the flop.
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