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200nl, Bold and aggressive plays in 3bet pots oop

  
 
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badgers
Old 12-10-2008, 04:13 PM     Post subject: 200nl, Bold and aggressive plays in 3bet pots oop #1 (permalink)  
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Posting a couple of hands from the blinds because I lose a lot from there and idk if these are too spewy.

Hand 1

Villain is Chiprick, running at 14/12 over 7k hands with 80% to 3bet. I've 3bet him a few times this session already but he hasn't really fought back yet. We haven't really got into any memorable wars in the past. I think he's maybe nitty/trappy enough to call with QQ/(very rarely AA) preflop but would almost always 4bet/call AK. Perhaps the 3bet preflop is spewy, considering the session history and he has position? I go for a kinda odd pot control line because I have SD value and only better is calling a bet, but on the river while I think calling may be +EV, I can quite credibly rep AK, KK, and AA with a check shove so I go wild. Spew or no? I guess the flush doesn't really help my cause...

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($260)
UTG ($200)
MP ($43)
CO ($254.95)
Button ($207)
SB ($200)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9, 7
3 folds, Button raises $6, 1 fold, Hero raises to $22, Button calls $16

Flop: ($45) 9, K, K (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($45) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $20, Hero calls $20

River: ($85) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $30, Hero raises $218 (All-In).......?


Hand 2

Villain is Mitchd. He's running at 26/15 with a 19% fold to 3bet over my small-ish 1.4k sample. Given that he's already seen me put half my stack in and fold earlier this session (3bet, two small-ish bets, fold all in position), I believed he would call my 3bet pretty damn wide so it was a clear 3bet for value. Thoughts about my line with the gutshot?

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (8 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($209.50)
CO ($44.45)
Button ($298.15)
SB ($202.65)
Hero (BB) ($265.85)
UTG ($272.70)
UTG+1 ($129.25)
MP1 ($31)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, A
5 folds, Button raises $8, 1 fold, Hero raises to $26, Button calls $18

Flop: ($53) 10, K, 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $28, Button calls $28

Turn: ($109) 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $46, Hero raises $211.85 (All-In)..........,
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a500lbgorilla
Old 12-10-2008, 04:39 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I would call the first and i like the second. I don't really get the river play on the first hand.

edit ehhh maybe check/fold the turn on the second one.

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kmind
Old 12-10-2008, 05:19 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I like the first one and am indifferent on the second one
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bigred
Old 12-10-2008, 06:19 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 I think the overbet may be too much, why not raise to 130? I think villain will fold mid pps and then each time villain has AK you're losing less.

Second I'm not sure how I feel about this. I think I like this because of villain's range.
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Deanglow
Old 12-10-2008, 07:31 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 dislike both a lot
 
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BankItDrew
Old 12-10-2008, 08:03 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 I see the idea in both but think they are each very spewy.

I'm calling the river bet in hand 1.

I'm usually c/f the turn in hand 2. If you want to raise, I'd bet something like $130 as well.


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Deanglow
Old 12-10-2008, 08:55 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 hand 1 he is most likely value betting 1010 and could talk himself into a call, as he should because wtf are you doing

hand 2 I prefer a double/triple barrel to this by a lot
 
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kmind
Old 12-10-2008, 10:04 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 didn't see stacks in the first hand. I still want to raise it but prob. bad as others mentioned.
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:16 PM #9 (permalink)  
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what the fuck are you doing in hand 1
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badgers
Old 12-11-2008, 01:42 AM #10 (permalink)  
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ignoring the river in hand one what do you guys think of the other streets?
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Old 12-11-2008, 01:49 AM #11 (permalink)  
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sure, other streets are good
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badgers
Old 12-11-2008, 09:11 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Ok, in hand one I wasn't really sure about my river line. Trying to represent the goofiest of lines with a monster is maybe not the best idea as a bluff, but I'm only risking $165 to win $110 so I need to get him to fold 58% of the time. Even if he does consider hero calling because of my odd line (I could still be vbetting AA/QQ here though since it's clear he doesn't have a K) I think he's likely to fold more than 58% of the time and so I shoved because I didn't really fancy calling. I know it's a fairly wacky line and it's pretty hard for me to have a hand here, but without history it's not an easy call to make....

Hand 2 there are so many bluffs, underpairs and random air in his range that will bet the turn, as well as weaker Ks bet/folding. I don't see why c/r is so bad here...? bet/bet/bet just gets it in with the top of his range without ever giving him the opportunity to bluff which I thought he would do a lot.
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ATOTHEC101
Old 12-11-2008, 09:36 AM #13 (permalink)  
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In hand 1 he has 10s-qs most of the time, if you think he folds that range to your line when all the draws missed then its fine. But most of the time he wont which makes it spew.

Hand 2 I prefer, but personally id just bet bet rather than check calling then check raising.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:43 AM #14 (permalink)  
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 i'm a blind fish and suck post-flop.
but...

hand 1 i dislike all streets post-flop - particularly river. Pre-flop is ok vs an 80% fold to 3-bet player, but you can proably 3-bet $20 for same fold-rate and when such a player calls a 3-bet you have to consider he may have a good hand. I either check fold flop cos i know I'm behind, or I c-bet $25 here cos that's what i do with my whole range. once the river comes, I suggest his range is TT+/AK and he;s struggling to fold any of that cos your line makes no sense.

hand 2 i dislike your turn play. Barrel is better
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
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nutsinho
Old 12-11-2008, 11:09 AM #15 (permalink)  
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 open shoving each flop is less bad than the lines you took
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badgers
Old 12-12-2008, 01:36 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Haha ok I can see that hand one is pretty damn spewy. That would be a pretty sick line for value with QQ+ and AK amiright?

Hand two maybe I'm being retarded, but I just think he can have such a huge range after he calls this flop that cr is not a bad option. He's stealing 40%+ and only folding to three bets 20% of the time. Although that stat may well be inaccurate, I have spewed at him before and he has position. When he bets the turn, I would expect him to have hands like q9, j9, aj, aq, jq at the very least as part of his bluffing range that will fold. I don't know if he would play hands like 99 in this way and fold to a shove, but it is possible. Also I don't think he can look me up light here since it is a sizable raise and I can quite easily have a hand... Where am I going wrong here?
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