Originally Posted by reDZill4

A PICTURE OF EVENTS OCCURRING IN THIS THREAD.

Originally Posted by reDZill4

LET ME SOME THIS WHOLE HAND UP FOR YOU YOU FUCKING RETARDS.

YES POKER IS THIS FUCKING EASY YOU GUY JUST SUCK THAT FUCKING BAD.
GOOD FUCKING GAME
END FUCKING THREAD.

Originally Posted by jyms

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Well, folding is horrible because we're at least getting set odds to call in the reraised pot. So if he does have AA-KK we might get paid here, although to a thinking player our hand is very transparent.

I dont see a problem with calling and then seeing a flop; if we 4bet here folding would be equally as bad after that.

Originally Posted by jimmy44

Actually, we are getting about 10.5-1 on implied odds without knowing anything about BU. Plus the fact that MP2 might 4bet/push and the fact that we will always be OOP (if MP2 calls our position would be even worst) makes me think that a call is not a good option.

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Yeah, but if MP2 calls our odds are even better. You guys make it think that QQ is impossible to play OOP, even though its the 3rd best hand in Poker and our opponent's hands will be very transparent on most flops. If you take calling QQ out of your arsenal then you're limiting a very profitable option. I'd certainly rather call here than 4bet/fold lmao.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

4ball that shit

metagame

Originally Posted by Muzzard

fold>4b/call>call>4b/fold

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

with my image its a pretty easy 4bet.
Depends what yours is, if youre unknown its a 4bet IMO

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

If we're getting it in all in here by 4betting, then calling to induce a squeeze by MP2 can't be bad because then it'll just increase his range and your equity. If you're unknown then they could just as easily think you're a donk too and your hand wont be faceup.

Folding seems to be the worst play IMO and saying to do it just so you can avoid playing in a tough spot seems to be the wrong reason. If you think you're behind then you can set mine because you're getting the odds; otherwise you're ahead and you should still play it and folding would be an even worse mistake.

I guess I just don't get the reason that since we don't know if we're ahead or behind then we should just take the easy way out and fold.

Originally Posted by badgers

OK i'm going to make a mor in depth post maybe I'm talking crap and red will shoot me down which is fairly standard. Whatever maybe I'll learn something.

Fold - Obviously weak and lame, although it definitely is the easiest line. I don't think it's completely horrible, for instance if you compare folding to calling to set value, we aren't losing very much equity at all by folding and it's less variance and hassle. Still, fairly horrid weak line that I don't like.

4bet/ call - This line is ok... At 2/4 the games are aggro enough that an unknown BU can be expected to 3bet quite wide here, the problem is we might be making a huge mistake if he's a total nit and his 3bet range is AA/KK, or even a meh mistake if his shove range is KK+ (obv the more he 3bet/folds the better.) An unknown you can definitely put AK in stacking off range at least SOME of the time and obv some garbage because people are dumb.

4bet/fold - I reeeeaaaaally hate this. If I posted this and I held A5s wanting to 4bet/fold, I would probably get flamed a lot for wanting to do this against unknowns, and rightly so. But it has to be profitable as a bluff for us to want to do this and we don't even have blockers. Also, we can be making a huge mistake in folding to the shove if he's bad, we can also make a pretty big mistake if he shoves AK. It's just the worst line in the world, and for those saying it makes life easier, give me a plan for when he flats your 4bet....

Call - Stacks said in IRC that this makes our hand face up, but as I said to miffed we have NO IMAGE because this is our first hand and they don't know us presumably. We are getting around the right odds to set mine anyway but that would not be my mentality on here, it's pretty ridiculous to put a unknown on KK+ after he 3bets in a LP battle. If MP2 4bet squeezes then we just have to go with it. I think this is the best option, sure the reverse implied odds aren't fun but it's not that bad a spot, we can just c/f any A/K flop etc.

meh my analysis wasn't verry in depth i just waffled a lot.

Call>4bet/call>>>fold>4bet/fold

Originally Posted by iopq

is it HU or 3way?

because the original raiser might call getting nice odds to setmine 3way

Originally Posted by reDZill4

well, after reading bankitnancy's post I'm pretty sure that those are losing lines so I'm happy with 4b/(c or f). I was also thinking about what mcat said and by that token just cold calling allows villain to play perfectly in position (this is how we lose money).