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mcatdog
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02-26-2007, 01:26 AM
Post subject: 2-3-5 live: Squeezed by a fish in a multiway pot
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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I went to a casino today for the first time and played some 2-3-5 spread limit. Live games in the Bay Area have a weird structure where the big blind is $5, the small blind is $3, the button posts a blind of $2, and it's $10 to call pre-flop. Also, the maximum bet or raise on any street is $200 (if it's checked to you, you can bet up to $200, but if someone else bets $100, you can raise to $300 for example).
The game has your usual mixture of maniacs, loose passive players, and grumpy old nits. I'm dealt 77 UTG at a 9-handed table and I just limp for $10 because I don't want to play a 15-way raised pot in crappy position with 77. The flop ends up being 4-way with these players.
BB - biggest fish at the table. He plays every hand and makes random bets that seem unrelated to either his cards or the size of the pot.
UTG - me
MP - unknown who just sat down
Button - maniac
The flop comes 665 rainbow and BB bets $10 into a $40 pot, which means God knows what. My position kind of sucks but I'm not folding any overpair to the table fish for 1/4 pot so I call. MP calls as well and Button folds.
On the 3 turn the fish bets $40 into a $60 pot. If it were heads-up I'd definitely call and I might even raise, but I still have no idea what MP has. Being squeezed between the fish and an unknown player I wasn't sure what to do, so I just called hoping to show my hand down cheaply. MP calls again.
I don't remember exactly what the river was but it was a total brick, like a ten or a jack or something like that. BB checks. I feel like if I check and MP bets I'd have to fold, but I'd like to get a little value from the BB if he has Q5 or ace high or some such nonsense, so I just bet $50 into the $160 pot to block MP from making a bigger bet, and hopefully get value from the BB. If MP were good he could probably raise me here with any two, but the passive line he took so far makes me think a raise from him isn't likely.
How'd I do?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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idk, i think i just check the river. You can call a bet from the fish.
"but the passive line he took so far makes me think a raise from him isn't likely."
i think that by association this makes him betting if u check unlikely as well. He's especially not going to be betting any hands that u beat.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Thanks Renton, anyone else? I'm interested in other people's input because I'll probably play vs. these opponents again in the future.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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this hand is a lot easier if you make a small raise on the turn. This way you either take the pot away from 5-x and straight draws and save yourself a bet on the river by finding out if you are against a 6-x hand now, and probably for cheaper.
Still, once MP calls behind you on the turn you have to check the river. It seems likely that he is holding a 6-x hand or a missed straight draw (at casinos i have not ran into many players who understand betting aggressively with trips to force out draws, hence they frequently slowplay them). Also, i think you are going to have to put in one more bet either from BB or MP on the river -- BB if he has a 6 or MP if he has a 6 or is bluffing his missed draw. It is a difficult spot and you save yourself a headache and money raising the turn.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Hmm. Raising the turn just might make MP fold the best hand, but I don't see any other advantages to it. It makes 5x fold when I could get another bet out of them on the river, and it certainly wouldn't have gotten me to showdown any cheaper than I got there, especially because in this game a straight draw is calling that raise anyway. Whether a turn raise is good or not, depends on how likely MP is to fold the winner, and I don't make a habit of bluffing, when I don't have a read other than that someone probably likes to call a lot. How likely to succeed do you think your bluff would be here, against an unknown?
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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I was not considering a turn raise an attempt to get MP to lay down a hand better than ours. It sounds like MP would raise any overpair bigger than ours preflop(except maybe K-K, A-A trying to be "trappy") and i don't see how we could get him to fold a six. But if he is on a draw and BB has 5-x in his hands i want to know before the river. So my raise was intended to get information about our opponents hands. If MP calls w/ a draw thats fine since he paid a bad price to get there. I might make a small bet on the river to stem off a big bluff, but i would probably c/ fold the river if i got a call from MP on the turn. If both players call, i am definitely c/ fold a non 7 river. If BB only calls i would probably call a modest river bet.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
I was not considering a turn raise an attempt to get MP to lay down a hand better than ours. It sounds like MP would raise any overpair bigger than ours preflop(except maybe K-K, A-A trying to be "trappy")
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Ding ding ding! He called me with AA and never put in a bet or a raise at any point during the hand. LOL live poker.
Quote:
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But if he is on a draw and BB has 5-x in his hands i want to know before the river. So my raise was intended to get information about our opponents hands.
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I'd like to know that as well if I could find out for free, but I don't think the information is worth the huge price I'd have to pay in order to get it. I think I played the hand OK but check-fold river would have been marginally better than what I did.
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