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pokerfan
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03-26-2008, 04:49 AM
Post subject: 100NL yes, sir, i folded my KK to potential AA
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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villain is 10.65/7.94/3.5 one of multitabling regulars every day on stars.
hmmm, he always folded to my 3 bet in history. This time i guess he got me but i still called his 4 bet preflop. Who the heck would fold KK on this BS flop?? It really came down to our reads on certain opponents, right?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
MP3 ($97)
CO ($96.05)
Button ($86.95)
SB ($57)
BB ($113.90)
UTG ($224.50)
UTG+1 ($99)
Hero ($98.50)
MP2 ($59.85)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K , K .
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $4, Hero raises to $14, 6 folds, UTG+1 raises to $35, Hero calls $21.
Flop: ($71.50) 8, 3 , 5 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $64 (All-In), Hero folds.
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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I don't get it, why are you calling pf to fold on the flop?
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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lol,i just wanted to see another king popping up.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pgil
I don't get it, why are you calling pf to fold on the flop?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Bad laydown.
If you have history between each other, then there is enough of a chance he knows your tight and is making a move.
Calling the 4-bet and folding to a push is really silly.
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jimmy44
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Place where I can spew
Posts: 1,391
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I think you have to push PreFlop.
11/8/3 is not a nit villain to fold KK. I might fold against a 8/2 villain and a lot of hands on him ...
The only reason to call a 4bet with KK would be to push/call a push on any non A flop ...
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XTR1000
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03-26-2008, 10:26 AM
Post subject: Re: 100NL yes, sir, i folded my KK to potential AA
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#6 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
hmmm, he always folded to my 3 bet in history.
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You´re 3betting way too tight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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i was thinking about his early position 4 bet over my mp1 3 bet. This is not like lp steal or something. Guys, whenever i ran into this situation against tight multitabling regulars in early position, they had AA almost every single time in my database. yeah, i called preflop and just signaled to him
" i'm ready to call any flop shove". Actually, his flop line did sound to me like AA. In history, i NEVER 3 bet light against him and stacked him twice in BvB situation(AA vs KK, QQ vs AK). By the way, i already stacked off with kk vs AA twice since last week 
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pokerfan
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03-26-2008, 11:57 AM
Post subject: Re: 100NL yes, sir, i folded my KK to potential AA
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#8 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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not really, i 3 bet with lots of stuff against certain players. Sometimes, i even 4 bet light if i feel 3 bettor's range is pretty wide.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XTR1000
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
hmmm, he always folded to my 3 bet in history.
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You´re 3betting way too tight |
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
lol,i just wanted to see another king popping up.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pgil
I don't get it, why are you calling pf to fold on the flop?
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If you're calling purely for set odds then it's a fold preflop. I'm not saying it is a fold preflop but set odds alone does not justify a call.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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fold pre, no implied odds
OR
push pre.
As played fold flop easy
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jimmy44
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Place where I can spew
Posts: 1,391
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
i was thinking about his early position 4 bet over my mp1 3 bet. This is not like lp steal or something. Guys, whenever i ran into this situation against tight multitabling regulars in early position, they had AA almost every single time in my database. yeah, i called preflop and just signaled to him
" i'm ready to call any flop shove". Actually, his flop line did sound to me like AA. In history, i NEVER 3 bet light against him and stacked him twice in BvB situation(AA vs KK, QQ vs AK). By the way, i already stacked off with kk vs AA twice since last week |
Don't worry about this. It does not happen that often!
Me, since the beginning of the year (35k hands) with KK I have run against AA 3 times. We have to learn to cope with this (I'm also trying too myself  ).
Statistically, when you have KK every 24 times there will be someone with AA. Therefore, when you have KK you cannot directly think that someone has AA when they 3bet you.
Furthermore, this would balanced by the times we have AA and villain has KK.
A 10/8/3.5 villain could well 4bet you with QQ+ in UTG hopping that you could fold KK as he is 4betting from UTG!
BTW, I could see this villain play the same line with AK. If his aggression was around 0.7-1 then it would be different.
Villain possible thoughts: damm it he called my 4bet IP, flop has only low cards. pot is bigger then my stack I got to push as I have 25% of change of hitting an A and K if I get called!
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SixT-4
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5
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Exactly. Why in God's name would you fold this getting 2-1 after putting a 3rd of your stack in on a great flop. His range is probably wider than this and you still have odds to call.
Board: 8c 5d 3h
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.515% 32.52% 05.00% 3219 495.00 { KdKh }
Hand 1: 62.485% 57.48% 05.00% 5691 495.00 { KK+, QdQh, QdQs, QhQs }
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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okay, guys. Another factor influencing my decision making process was that i tried to protect my good winnings near the end of my session and avoid tangling with these regulars. Dont get me wrong, i 4 bet shove KK preflop or flat call 3 bet and c/r all-in on any flop very often in my games. 
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
i tried to protect my good winnings near the end of my session
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+EV is +EV
Wrong mental approach
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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its probably one of my big leaks i've got to fix at the moment. Thanks for pointing that out:P
Quote:
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Originally Posted by badgers
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
i tried to protect my good winnings near the end of my session
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+EV is +EV
Wrong mental approach |
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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I especially don't like the fold since he was obviously willing to go to the felt with less than AA in 2 BvB situations, one of those times having as little as AK. His entire pf range pushes the flop, so the only decision you had was pf, whether to play for stacks. You decided yes, so follow through.
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Like omfg you just tilted the piss out of me with this hand.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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I think I'm going to stop reading the Full Ring forums because I get tilted way too much when people do shit like this.
CALLCALLCALLCALL
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
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Sometimes I get in these mental processes where I overthink things so much that I forget about standard ABC poker & manage to convince myself into a nit or LAGG...
I think you may have just done that here pokerfan.
I like what you did preflop cause it gets more value from JJ/QQ/AK on this flop. I'm starting to play KK in 3-bet/4-bet situations like this more often...
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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I'm just going to reiterate what everyone else has already said:
If you have history with this guy and 3 betting the crap out of him, isn't this a great hand to go the distance with? Secondly, do not call preflop with the hopes of hitting a King, your preflop odds are horrible. Thirdly, if you are going to call preflop, look to go the distance.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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I cant stress enough that its not my normal play and how disappointed i was after this hand. I just figured that this strong bad feeling really influenced my decision in the heat moment regardless of odds, blah, blah. My original plan was call 4 bet and ship it on any flop.
Oh, well i changed my mind seconds before i decided to give up
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
I'm just going to reiterate what everyone else has already said:
If you have history with this guy and 3 betting the crap out of him, isn't this a great hand to go the distance with? Secondly, do not call preflop with the hopes of hitting a King, your preflop odds are horrible. Thirdly, if you are going to call preflop, look to go the distance.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
okay, guys. Another factor influencing my decision making process was that i tried to protect my good winnings near the end of my session and avoid tangling with these regulars.
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Sometimes not without merit, you folded one decsion too late.
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Seabass
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: trying not to die
Posts: 205
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
lol, I just wanted to see another king popping up. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
I already stacked off with kk vs AA twice since last week |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
I tried to protect my good winnings near the end of my session
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Bad.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfan
how disappointed i was after this hand
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Good.
Sometimes we make a bad play, it's ok. The important thing imo is that we can recognize when we do it and what we did wrong, then we can learn and move on.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
As played fold flop easy
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lol what?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
As played fold flop easy
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lol what? |
i'm glad my recent play and poker thoughts make you laugh
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
As played fold flop easy
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lol what? |
i'm glad my recent play and poker thoughts make you laugh |
Probably because they are laughably terrible. Seriously.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
As played fold flop easy
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lol what? |
i'm glad my recent play and poker thoughts make you laugh |
Probably because they are laughably terrible. Seriously. |
Think it's time for me to start posting more hands and commenting more on hand histories! Thanks for pointing this out - and thanks for the comments on hands in the past. I don't tend to comment on your posted hands cos I think the gulf between 50nl and 200nl is too vast - maybe i should, starting to do so should get me thinking better again.
My goal is to get better, and I have a lot of room for improvement....
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