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100NL - whaaaaat?

  
 
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Keilah
Old 09-19-2008, 12:30 PM     Post subject: 100NL - whaaaaat? #1 (permalink)  
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Villain 16/8/1

This hand confused me. How's my line?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($19.50)
Button ($99)
Hero (SB) ($102.75)
BB ($108.85)
UTG ($25.35)
UTG+1 ($68)
MP1 ($68.90)
MP2 ($98.50)
MP3 ($24.85)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, K
4 folds, MP3 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5, BB calls $4, MP3 calls $4

Flop: ($15) 4, A, 2 (3 players)
Hero bets $10, BB calls $10, 1 fold

Turn: ($35) J (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $18, Hero calls $18

River: ($71) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $32, Hero calls $32

Total pot: $135 | Rake: $3
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Miffed22001
Old 09-19-2008, 12:32 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 id block lead the river unless you have a solid read
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Keilah
Old 09-19-2008, 12:43 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Reasoning? What range do you put him on?
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allabout
Old 09-19-2008, 12:47 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
id block lead the river unless you have a solid read
How much would you lead for? Like $20?
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Elmer Letterman
 
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Miffed22001
Old 09-19-2008, 03:09 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allabout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
id block lead the river unless you have a solid read
How much would you lead for? Like $20?
what our opponent bet - $30ish - AJ will call, AQ probably does, and a flush will raise making our hand ABC to play. Sets probably raise also
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LexyBack
Old 09-19-2008, 09:13 PM #6 (permalink)  

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What does it look like from your opponents point of view?

You do no like the J, the heart, or the 4. Screams all day long your have what i call "an unhappy ace".

Even on scarey boards like that, i think its best to stay in control and be the aggressor, letting you decide the size of the pot and firing out the relevant bets for what you want to achieve.

I would bet the turn around $25 here. Sure the JH is a scarey turn card, but i think its a far more assertive play to dictate the action and keep the pressure on your opponent. If he folds great, if he calls we slow down on the river, and if he raises we have all the info we need.

By betting the turn you will have a much much bigger idea of where exactly he is at.
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Miffed22001
Old 09-20-2008, 11:45 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexyBack
What does it look like from your opponents point of view?

You do no like the J, the heart, or the 4. Screams all day long your have what i call "an unhappy ace".

Even on scarey boards like that, i think its best to stay in control and be the aggressor, letting you decide the size of the pot and firing out the relevant bets for what you want to achieve.

I would bet the turn around $25 here. Sure the JH is a scarey turn card, but i think its a far more assertive play to dictate the action and keep the pressure on your opponent. If he folds great, if he calls we slow down on the river, and if he raises we have all the info we need.

By betting the turn you will have a much much bigger idea of where exactly he is at.
only agree with betting the turn if you have a heart behind and are sure your opp could have Ax a fair amount
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pokerfan
Old 09-20-2008, 04:02 PM #8 (permalink)  
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c/f without heart on the turn and c/c with heart. The guy'AF is only 1
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Keilah
Old 09-20-2008, 05:06 PM #9 (permalink)  
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So, funny story, I called him down and he showed 55.
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wakeup
Old 09-22-2008, 02:19 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Id probably bet the turn and bet the river small
plenty of aces in his range after limp calling
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Miffed22001
Old 09-22-2008, 06:46 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keilah
So, funny story, I called him down and he showed 55.
makes sense, hes just wasnt committed enough to getting you off your hand with the correct bet sizing.
If this was a 2/4 hand the turn gets bet harder and you always face a river shove which makes calling a very tough deicsion becuase 2/4 players 'should' read hands better

Also, your opponent is either very good (16/8 stats could state this) or at least half decent 16/8 is a little loose but ok. So if thats the case, what hands does he call you with oop in the BB.
Me thinks more than 90% of his hands are pairs, so he has a boat or a bluff a lot on the river IMO.
If opp was on button, again, much tougher river call as his range is more sc's and big broadways with positional advantage, but thats maybe too advanced for 100nl just yet
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Fnord
Old 09-22-2008, 08:02 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I think c/c is a terrible turn line without a big heart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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wakeup
Old 09-24-2008, 12:03 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
I think c/c is a terrible turn line without a big heart.
if we bet the turn and get called,
whats the plan on a (1) heart (2) non heart river
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pokerfan
Old 09-24-2008, 04:24 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeup
if we bet the turn and get called,
whats the plan on a (1) heart (2) non heart river
if i bet on the turn, i'd make another small-medium bet on non heart river. Obviously, its c/f on the heart river. I agree that c/c is the worst line here without any big heart vs a competent villain.
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Keilah
Old 09-24-2008, 04:59 PM #15 (permalink)  
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This guy's totally not competent.
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Miffed22001
Old 09-24-2008, 07:58 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
I think c/c is a terrible turn line without a big heart.
Dont agree because:
If we bet and he calls you are committed to a fold because what worse does he call with to see a river?
Opp can raise the turn and fold us always because our hand hates heat
Betting turn and then to getting river makes any bet a tough decision (i.e c/c is basically c/c'ing a river shove) betting only gets called by better IMO

Agree because:
Opps are nitty and if we fire a second barrel on turn they go away a lot
Opp raises flop mostly if we are beaten (set two pair)
balance
its not conceivable for us not to have a flush on the turn here (KQs/JTs/A9s/76s etc) are all part of our range (or should be IMO)
Us betting makes the tough decisions our opponents, not ours

Overall:
hmmmm, still think c/c is best without history
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nutsinho
Old 09-24-2008, 08:51 PM #17 (permalink)  
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 make bet on turn no check
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