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100NL, tough spot against solid reg.

  
 
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ATOTHEC101
Old 06-13-2008, 10:14 PM     Post subject: 100NL, tough spot against solid reg. #1 (permalink)  
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Gonna post this hand in 4 pieces for each street, as theres an interesting decision to be made on every one.

The villain im up against is a solid, positionally aware multi tabling reg who is capable of making moves though i havnt seen him act out of line yet. At the time of the hand i had 160 hands on him and he was running 11/8, with an a/f of 4, with this at 9 on the flop and 3 on the turn.

Also he 3 bet me super quickly so take from that what u will.

Seat 1: ATOTHEC101 ($115.60)
Seat 2: BigBukkinChickn ($114.05)
Seat 3: Mawrich ($72)
Seat 4: uvorange ($161.60)
Seat 5: KaTeHoK ($56)
Seat 6: Gee187 ($113.30)
Seat 7: rydermarzyk ($27.10)
Seat 8: 42O JAYmac ($46.55), is sitting out
Seat 9: 1badluck2 ($99)
Mawrich posts the small blind of $0.50
uvorange posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ATOTHEC101 [Ad Kd]
KaTeHoK folds
Gee187 folds
rydermarzyk folds
1badluck2 folds
Gee187 stands up
ATOTHEC101 raises to $3.50
BigBukkinChickn raises to $12
Mawrich folds
uvorange folds
ATOTHEC101...
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freechus9
Old 06-13-2008, 11:14 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Muck or 4-bet to 35 /fold to a shove. Calling sucks because we're OOP and won't have momentum. If he 3-bets light I raise almost 100%. I lean towards 4betting also because he's on the button and is, as you said, positionally aware which broadens his range a little.
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mcatdog
Old 06-14-2008, 12:27 AM #3 (permalink)  
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I'd 4-bet to about 32 and snap call a shove.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freechus9
Muck or 4-bet to 35 / fold to a shove.
Gross.
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gametight
Old 06-14-2008, 12:30 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freechus9
Muck or 4-bet to 35 / SNAP to a shove. Calling sucks because we're OOP and won't have momentum. If he 3-bets light I raise almost 100%. I lean towards 4betting also because he's on the button and is, as you said, positionally aware which broadens his range a little.
Dont 4 bet if your not going to call his shove. Only AA has you crushed here.


This deciscion also depends alot upon your stats (incl. steal percentage), how active youve been lately, ect.
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Fnord
Old 06-14-2008, 12:33 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by freechus9
Muck or 4-bet to 35 / fold to a shove.
Gross.
If you think he's got a tight 3-bet range I'm ok with folding AK to the 3-bet knowing that sometimes you're making a small mistake. However, once you 4-bet it you're almost always potstuck.
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mcatdog
Old 06-14-2008, 12:44 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Definitely it's OK to fold to a 3-bet vs. some nits, but 4-betting with the intention of folding to a shove is really awful.
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ATOTHEC101
Old 06-14-2008, 01:08 AM #7 (permalink)  
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ok so weve decided 4 bet to 32-35 is the best play. Well this is where i butchered this one, i had 2 big decisions on my other tables at the time and i just quickly called before my timer ran out.

ATOTHEC101 calls $8.50
*** FLOP *** [8s Kc 9s]
ATOTHEC101 checks
BigBukkinChickn bets $20
ATOTHEC101 has 15 seconds left to act
ATOTHEC101...

ok, ive managed to hit, but whats my plan? well as his flop af is so high and i dont wanna discourage qq,jj and air betting the turn i thought flat calling was the best play, what do you think?
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gametight
Old 06-14-2008, 01:27 AM #8 (permalink)  
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SHOVEL!!!

Drawy board, lots of scary cards to come.
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ATOTHEC101
Old 06-14-2008, 01:40 AM #9 (permalink)  
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the more i look at this hand the more i hate the way i played it
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ponyboy
Old 06-14-2008, 05:14 AM #10 (permalink)  
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The only hands at this point (like preflop) that beat you are AA and KK. 3 bet usually means either one of these unless he thinks you're a donk which hopefully he doesn't.
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PapalRage
Old 06-14-2008, 06:16 AM #11 (permalink)  
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i cant really see anyone firing another bet on the turn with QQ/JJ so shoving is best on that flop.
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ATOTHEC101
Old 06-14-2008, 11:04 AM #12 (permalink)  
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i had witnessed him prior trying a multi street bluff and i was fairly sure he would bet big on a blank turn trying to represent aa. Therefore i just called not wanting to scare him off...again probably another mitstake in the hand. I have to call this bet all day right?

ATOTHEC101 calls $20
*** TURN *** [8s Kc 9s] [4c]
ATOTHEC101 checks
BigBukkinChickn bets $82.05, and is all in
ATOTHEC101 has 15 seconds left to act
ATOTHEC101....
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pokerfan
Old 06-14-2008, 03:09 PM #13 (permalink)  
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c' mon. Snap call, please.I rarely fold my overpair or TPTK in these BvB situations once i call their flop bet. Look this hand where i happily stacked a retarded TA regular with similar stats :P

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($56.55)
UTG ($49.55)
MP1 ($129.90)
MP2 ($51.45)
Hero ($98.55)
Button ($57.50)
SB ($108.20)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K.
3 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, SB raises to $14, 1 fold, Hero calls $10.

Flop: ($29) Q, 8, 6 (2 players)
SB bets $19, Hero calls $19.

Turn: ($67) 5 (2 players)
SB bets $43, Hero raises to $65.55, SB calls $22.55.

River: ($198.10) 9 (2 players)

Final Pot: $198.10
SB has :Tc:
Hero has : :Kc: :Ks:
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ATOTHEC101
Old 06-14-2008, 03:44 PM #14 (permalink)  
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yeah i was just making sure, i called the flop with the intention of trapping and never folding to a turn bet so obv i went all in once he bet the turn. The hand he showed me was somewhat surprising and will definitely shape how i play against him in the future...

ATOTHEC101 calls $82.05
BigBukkinChickn shows [4s 3s]
ATOTHEC101 shows [Ad Kd]
*** RIVER *** [8s Kc 9s 4c] [Qh]
BigBukkinChickn shows a pair of Fours
ATOTHEC101 shows a pair of Kings
ATOTHEC101 wins the pot ($226.60) with a pair of Kings
"This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.
 
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pokerfan
Old 06-14-2008, 06:20 PM #15 (permalink)  
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this is why we trap these retarded aggressive spewards occasionally
Hardly can they give up their agresso on worse pairs or draws in 3 bet pots.
haha, A key to defeating a poker bully is to let him hang himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
yeah i was just making sure, i called the flop with the intention of trapping and never folding to a turn bet so obv i went all in once he bet the turn. The hand he showed me was somewhat surprising and will definitely shape how i play against him in the future...

ATOTHEC101 calls $82.05
BigBukkinChickn shows [4s 3s]
ATOTHEC101 shows [Ad Kd]
*** RIVER *** [8s Kc 9s 4c] [Qh]
BigBukkinChickn shows a pair of Fours
ATOTHEC101 shows a pair of Kings
ATOTHEC101 wins the pot ($226.60) with a pair of Kings
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wufwugy
Old 06-14-2008, 09:24 PM #16 (permalink)  
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wufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to allwufwugy is a name known to all
 based on your description of villain, AK is the nuts vs him in a pf late or blind battle. so when you flat pf its not only because youre fist snapping when improved, but you think his 3betting range is so wide that you can get value from him when unimproved. with that in mind then you gotta 4bet or shove any flop.

however an issue may be how well you read him. if he folds AK QQ to a 4bet then you gotta fold, if he doesn't then you gotta felt. vs an 11/8 at fr i like to have other reasons to continue with AK here. things like youve been raising a lot lately, he's been 3betting a lot, he is truly positionally aware (in that case he wont fold AK QQ to felt), you have a bad image, etc.

i think for an overall game plan its best to default 4bet here, and only deviate when given reason to even though it may actually be wrong. its not that wrong, and its helps to maintain aggression and equity that is needed to beat better opponents and harder games.
 
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ATOTHEC101
Old 06-14-2008, 11:20 PM #17 (permalink)  
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thanks wufwugy, thats a very helpful reply, im not sure why i didnt 4 bet him preflop tbh, like i said earlier i was distracted at other tables and he hadnt go out of line at all up till that point so i didnt really wanna stack off with ak and chose to peel. In reflection i made a mistake. However once i flopped my king i didnt wanna raise hm out of the hand as he knows im not gonna stack off light and will likely muck qq, jj,1010 that i want to get value from. Also he likes to barrel and is agro in pos so i was trying to give him some rope to hang himself if he had air. I was either absolutely crushed or way ahead in my mind as at the time i thought his 3 bet range was fairly str8 forward, i was obviously wrong looking at what he had.
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