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100NL, QQ two hands in tough aggressive spots

  
 
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pokerfan
Old 02-25-2008, 05:50 PM     Post subject: 100NL, QQ two hands in tough aggressive spots #1 (permalink)  
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i had hard time playing ladies in these two raised spots, please help me out

hand 1: villain is 9.3/3.4/7.5( flop AF) over 450 hands. he was very quiet at the table before this hand. i was really worried about his consistent aggression and didnt think he played nuts flush draw that way.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

CO ($59.80)
Button ($18.55)
SB ($30.05)
BB ($100)
UTG ($67.05)
UTG+1 ($99)
MP1 ($102.70)
MP2 ($90.50)
Hero ($96.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with , .
4 folds, Hero raises to $4, 3 folds, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($8.50) , , (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $6, BB raises to $18, Hero calls $12.

Turn: ($44.50) (2 players)
BB bets $30, Hero ?

Final Pot: $44.50


hand 2: villain is 17.8/11.2/1.8(flop AF) over 169 hands.Also, he was relatively quiet at this table and didnt do anything out of line. I guess Nobody'd fold QQ preflop here but whats my line on this undercard flop?
i either shove over or fold, right? Do you guys feel comfortable here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($142.40)
UTG+1 ($35.95)
MP1 ($73.50)
Hero ($98.50)
MP3 ($52.40)
CO ($130.45)
Button ($113)
SB ($59)
BB ($39.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q, Q.
3 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, CO calls $4, Button raises to $14, 2 folds, Hero calls $10, CO calls $10.

Flop: ($43.50) 8, 6, 6 (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets $35, Hero ?
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XTR1000
Old 02-25-2008, 06:08 PM #2 (permalink)  
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#1 flop is fine, fold turn. ur almost always dead vs this guy

#2 4bet pre. its a great spot for him to squeeze and a call might encourage CO to come a long. For me it´s near impossible to play this well postflop in a 3way OOP. As played I believe u must cry and shove over
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xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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pokerfan
Old 02-25-2008, 06:19 PM #3 (permalink)  
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hand 2: if i 4 bet and he shoves over , whats your game plan? Also, how much more do you want to 4 bet him with the intention of folding to a shove?
Quote:
Originally Posted by XTR1000
#1 flop is fine, fold turn. ur almost always dead vs this guy

#2 4bet pre. its a great spot for him to squeeze and a call might encourage CO to come a long. For me it´s near impossible to play this well postflop in a 3way OOP. As played I believe u must cry and shove over
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XTR1000
Old 02-25-2008, 09:19 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I 4bet to 34 leaving roughly 65 behind, not intending to fold. If he shoves over we´ll be getting better than 2:1 on our money which makes it an easy call. Given his stats I believe he folds to 4bet >50%

the pessismists calc for the CO-folds-scenario and opp shoving AA, KK:

ev = .5*22 + .5*(.2*137 - .8*65) = -1.3

and if villian shoves AK as well

ev = .5*22 + .5*(.4*137 - .6*65) = 18.9
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xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
yo
 
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spoonitnow
Old 02-26-2008, 01:29 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1 - I kind of hate calling the flop raise knowing that we're going to be folding to a turn bet. I think against a guy this tight, we can probably be okay with just folding to the flop c/r if we don't believe that he's playing the flush draw like this, although I can't blame you for calling.

Hand 2 - This is the kind of spot I used to hate getting in because I felt like I was always screwing myself over or something, but I agree with XTR that this calls for a 4-bet that's calling a shove.
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I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

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I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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pokerfan
Old 02-26-2008, 02:25 AM #6 (permalink)  
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i just played this level less than two weeks, so i really proceeded with cautions and took lots of notes on my opps

hand 1: i called his flop c/r coz his flop AF is rather higher than normal and folded on the turn.

hand 2: i don't have solid read on this guy like he 3 bet light IP and squeeze a lot, etc. 169 hands is probably not enough to categorize him. i agree that 4 bet here is a better line than flat calling when in doubt. As played, i folded on the flop right after he bet into two ppl this aggressively.
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spoonitnow
Old 02-26-2008, 02:37 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 Yeah fwiw I think folding the flop in hand 2 is best as played.
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I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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jimmy44
Old 02-26-2008, 11:02 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XTR1000
I 4bet to 34 leaving roughly 65 behind, not intending to fold. If he shoves over we´ll be getting better than 2:1 on our money which makes it an easy call. Given his stats I believe he folds to 4bet >50%

the pessismists calc for the CO-folds-scenario and opp shoving AA, KK:

ev = .5*22 + .5*(.2*137 - .8*65) = -1.3

and if villian shoves AK as well

ev = .5*22 + .5*(.4*137 - .6*65) = 18.9
How do you calculate this?
The ".5*22" is ok (i.e. the 50% of chance that opp folds), however I don't get the part in parenthesis ...
Thanks!
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Fnord
Old 02-26-2008, 11:23 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfan
coz his flop AF is rather higher than normal and folded on the turn.
Tighter players will tend to have a higher AF. A 10/4 and a 40/12 might play post-flop the same but have very different flop AFs. DUCY?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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XTR1000
Old 02-26-2008, 11:30 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy44
Quote:
Originally Posted by XTR1000
I 4bet to 34 leaving roughly 65 behind, not intending to fold. If he shoves over we´ll be getting better than 2:1 on our money which makes it an easy call. Given his stats I believe he folds to 4bet >50%

the pessismists calc for the CO-folds-scenario and opp shoving AA, KK:

ev = .5*22 + .5*(.2*137 - .8*65) = -1.3

and if villian shoves AK as well

ev = .5*22 + .5*(.4*137 - .6*65) = 18.9
How do you calculate this?
The ".5*22" is ok (i.e. the 50% of chance that opp folds), however I don't get the part in parenthesis ...


Thanks!
second term represents the times its shoved on us after we 4bet to 34. There will be $137 in pot and we have $65 left to call. The first calc assumes we get shoved on by KK+ giving us 20% equity. We will win $137 20% the time and lose $65 80% the time.

If villian shoves KK+, AK our equity increases to 40%
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xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
yo
 
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jimmy44
Old 02-26-2008, 04:01 PM #11 (permalink)  
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