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100NL pocket queens minor detail

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SmackinYaUp

08-23-2005, 04:02 AM Post subject: 100NL pocket queens minor detail

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: B N L

Posts: 1,725

This hand was played while doing homework and 3 tabling with no reads. Basically just nut peddling. This is me playing a fairly big pot in position with an overpair. The guy calls my big reraise and checks to me on the turn which screams either draw, AK'ish type cards, or monster. Is there any reason to bet the turn here?

I don't see any real draws here and am easily tied to the pot if I bet again. I would really rather control the size of the pot and if giving a free card means doing so, is it profitable in the long run? If I bet any decent amount on the turn, I'm either going to get cold called by someone weaktight with a better hand, cold called by a draw, or raised by something beating me. If I check behind and call the river I'm giving retarded hands more chances to bluff/bleed chips into me. What is the best play in this situation vs. 100NL donks in the long run?

Hand History:
View Previous hand for this table.

Texas Hold'em $1-$1 NL (real money), #1,195,072,861
Table Tamale, 22 Aug 2005 11:48 PM ET
Seat 1: lvnoffthedge ($98.50 in chips)
Seat 2: darkmanpi ($85 in chips)
Seat 3: jmont128 ($59.25 in chips)
Seat 4: the_chosen1 ($66 in chips)
Seat 5: The.Shredder ($105.75 in chips)
Seat 6: KQ_Suited ($100 in chips)
Seat 7: Dr.Maciek ($33.75 in chips)
Seat 8: sleepyt ($108.25 in chips)
Seat 9: F00SE1 ($91.75 in chips)
Seat 10: SlappinYaUp ($98.50 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
jmont128 posts blind ($0.50), the_chosen1 posts blind ($1).

SlappinYaUp gets [ QD,QH ]

PRE-FLOP
The.Shredder calls $1, KQ_Suited calls $1, Dr.Maciek folds, sleepyt folds, F00SE1 folds, SlappinYaUp bets $5, lvnoffthedge folds, darkmanpi folds, jmont128 calls $4.50, the_chosen1 calls $4, The.Shredder calls $4, KQ_Suited calls $4.

FLOP [board cards 4S,10D,6H ]
jmont128 checks, the_chosen1 bets $2, The.Shredder bets $9, KQ_Suited folds, SlappinYaUp bets $18, jmont128 folds, the_chosen1 folds, The.Shredder calls $9.

TURN [board cards 4S,10D,6H,3H ]
The.Shredder checks, SlappinYaUp checks.

RIVER [board cards 4S,10D,6H,3H,2D ]
The.Shredder bets $12, SlappinYaUp calls $12.

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Bmxicle

08-23-2005, 07:20 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Vancouver

Posts: 947

That looks like top pair to me, there aren't any realistic draws. I'd usually bet the turn, but the pot was getting pretty big and betting the turn would prolly make it get a bit out of control here, not to mention the fact that you don't really have a read, so i like the check behind.

Drewbie

08-23-2005, 02:10 PM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 88

That smells like K10-A10 here.

I dont know.... I might worry about a spiked set here.

journey075

08-23-2005, 02:19 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 725

i value-raise the river.

Rondavu

08-23-2005, 02:23 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

You bet the turn because it's an obvious top pair. A set isn't raising a disconnected rainbow board on the flop if it knows what's good for it. Value bet the turn or just punch it.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

Aces

08-23-2005, 02:50 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2004

Posts: 832

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

You bet the turn because it's an obvious top pair. A set isn't raising a disconnected rainbow board on the flop if it knows what's good for it. Value bet the turn or just punch it.

I would guess by Smackin's description("donk") that the villian had some strange hand, but would that be such a terrible way to play trips for this hand? Sure the standard/safe way would be to check, but he's gotta figure probably AK or a high pair with the PF bet. A bet w/a set(which could represent TPTK) would probably elicit a reraise by an overpair, which it did, and disguise his hand. Of course you couldn't give a donk credit for such a move unless it was sortof accidently tricky.

Would he really call a flop RR w/TPTK? I don't mind the turn check or river call.

DimitriT

08-23-2005, 03:26 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 614

A limp/call from UTG pre-flop can be either small/medium pockets or weak high-cards (AQos, AJ, ATs, KQs). Here I am worried about a slow-played set. There's nothing threatening on the board so a this is ideal for a slow-play and there's no draw. If he is playing a set, the turn is where he will check to the raiser and build the pot. I think checking behind is a reasonable play - it tells TP that he can bet you on the river and it tells a set that you will likely fold to an overbet. The call on the end is sort of a odds play. Half the time he got his TP and the other half its a value bet with a set. But since the pot is giving you better than 2:1, its a good call, IMO.

DimitriT

08-23-2005, 03:58 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 614

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

You bet the turn because it's an obvious top pair. A set isn't raising a disconnected rainbow board on the flop if it knows what's good for it. Value bet the turn or just punch it.

I'm not sure its obvious. Given the preflop action, an overpair is likely. I would lead out witha set in this case.

Rondavu

08-23-2005, 05:36 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimitriT

I think checking behind is a reasonable play - it tells TP that he can bet you on the river and it tells a set that you will likely fold to an overbet. The call on the end is sort of a odds play. Half the time he got his TP and the other half its a value bet with a set. But since the pot is giving you better than 2:1, its a good call, IMO.

I respect that. I think it's a better play against a smart player however. I think you lose value against inexperienced or bad players since KT and AT will pay you off here. I think it's important not to give some players too much credit, less you miss out.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

Bmxicle

08-24-2005, 02:06 AM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Vancouver

Posts: 947

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimitriT

yeah i completely agree w/ that but he said he had no reads, so although it is probably correct to assume he is a donk, he may not be.

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100NL pocket queens minor detail

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