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100nl, meh why i ran into such a tough spot this often?

  
 
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pokerfan
Old 04-28-2008, 08:20 PM     Post subject: 100nl, meh why i ran into such a tough spot this often? #1 (permalink)  
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lately, i've got to make some tough decisions on later streets very often. Villian looked like semi-loose unknown over 25 hands. After his insta shove, its a very close decision. Timing tell says if ppl insta shove on scary river, it usually means some marginal holdings, correct?

$0.5/$1 Pot Limit Holdem
9 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($93.00)
UTG+1 ($57.50)
MP1 ($110.35)
MP2 ($37.00)
MP3 ($75.50)
Hero ($95.00)
BTN ($72.50)
SB ($60.35)
BB ($100.00)

Pre-flop: ($1.5, 9 players) Hero is CO
2 folds, MP1 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4, BTN calls $4, 2 folds, MP1 calls $3

Flop: ($13.5, 3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $9, BTN calls $9, MP1 calls $9

Turn: ($40.5, 3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $25, 1 fold, MP1 calls $25

River: ($90.5, 2 players)
MP1 goes all-in $72.35, Hero ?
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gametight
Old 04-28-2008, 09:14 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I fold this. There isnt much else he ever has here but a flush draw and this is his pathetic attempt at getting it paid off.

Make a note and keep playing.
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Deanglow
Old 04-28-2008, 10:15 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Bad players like to make up their putting in money behind passively with draws by doing this. So don't pay them.
 
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Jellodays
Old 04-28-2008, 10:24 PM #4 (permalink)  

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The trick is to check the turn. Voila.
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pokerfan
Old 04-28-2008, 10:45 PM #5 (permalink)  
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its a bad play vs two donks. you gotta play your TPTK mercilessly like in live games
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellodays
The trick is to check the turn. Voila.
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badgers
Old 04-28-2008, 10:48 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellodays
The trick is to check the turn. Voila.
Giving a free card here is horrible, don't be results orientated.
3k post - Return of the blog!
 
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pokerfan
Old 04-28-2008, 10:53 PM #7 (permalink)  
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ok, guys. I was bluffed off my hand. he fucking proudly showed me :Qs: :Js:. INSTA SHOVE ON SCARY RIVER MEANS OUTRAGEOUS BLUFF
timing tell
what a terrible donkey hand!!
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gametight
Old 04-28-2008, 11:27 PM #8 (permalink)  
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ya... super donkey play. Make a note and move on. Put him on your friends list too.

Also, he probly wasnt bluffing. He just has no clue how to play poker.
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Deanglow
Old 04-29-2008, 02:53 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellodays
The trick is to check the turn. Voila.
LOL please stop posting this is so terrible in so many ways
 
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Jellodays
Old 04-30-2008, 06:55 PM #10 (permalink)  

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You guys have this crazy form of groupthink where you always want to bet the turn for protection or something. I don't understand it. How about we not inflate the pot everytime we have TP in a multiway pot where one person might have a draw.

I don't want to play for stacks here, and I'm fully content calling a moderately sized bet if some draw does get there. I'm also fine with betting or calling if the draw doesn't get there. It seems to work pretty well for me.

OP's title asks specifically why he runs into this tough spot so often. I think my response is a fairly reasonable answer. There are some hands that villians may have that are not draws at all, either mid pairs, or a TPWK type hand. If you really think that you will be getting 3 streets of value out of those hands, then by all means, bet every street. Maybe this happens at 100 but I don't remember that being the case when I played it.

Unknowns also do some pretty crazy things. Since that is the case, I don't mind underrepresenting my hand a little by checking the turn, if they by chance missed with a draw and decide to bet it on the river, or decide to bet their midpair/TP hands for value, then I can call and not have to worry about putting all my money in the pot.

Of course, there is also a chance that you are in fact behind at this point in the hand, by some 2 pair hand or a set, not that it is very likely of course. If you bet the turn, then what are you doing on the river? Checking no matter what comes? Betting if the draw doesn't get there? If you are checking no matter what comes, then you are going for 2 streets of value anyways...which you would get if you checked the turn.
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kmind
Old 04-30-2008, 07:26 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 I disagree, jello. We aren't just getting value from a draw. It's not just a protection bet, it's an easy value bet.
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ChrisBCritter
Old 04-30-2008, 07:30 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellodays
You guys have this crazy form of groupthink where you always want to bet the turn for protection or something. I don't understand it. How about we not inflate the pot everytime we have TP in a multiway pot where one person might have a draw.

I don't want to play for stacks here, and I'm fully content calling a moderately sized bet if some draw does get there. I'm also fine with betting or calling if the draw doesn't get there.

It seems to work for me pretty well.
LOL "groupthink" and "protection". How about we bet when we think we are ahead of opponent(s) range, FOR VALUE (i.e. money)?

No, we don't want to play for stacks on the river here, which is why a river fold is correct. But depending on the villian, you could/should be willing to play for stacks on the turn...

Edit: darn you kmind, you beat me!
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