Originally Posted by martindcx1e

wow i bet this flop & turn i think lol

Originally Posted by pantherhound

Routine check fold here.

Depending on number of players in the hand, I sometimes do this on the flop with middle or bottom pair OOP in a limped pot since it defines everyone else's hand and I can carry on according to the read on whoever comes along for the ride. This may be a leak though, a turned or rivered 2 pair or trips may not get paid enough to cover the times i don't improve or couldn't get the weak ones away from their hand if I follow up.

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

i check the flop and lead the turn on a blank

Originally Posted by samsonite2100

It depends on the table, but I'm usually w/ Martin--I lead flop and turn here. I think Hero is good here a lot of the time and if your default line in these spots is check/fold, you're leaving a shit ton of money on the table. The nice thing about hands like these is they're no-brainer folds to any aggression from villains. You're never gonna lose your ass with T7.

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

would those who say c/f flop bet the flop with A7 here?

Originally Posted by pantherhound

don't think anyone said that, the turn play is under question here.

Originally Posted by benny999

I don't bet flop in this situation (early position, no reads, ~1/2 the deck is scary). My line here is check/fold flop, and lead a minority of turn cards.

Originally Posted by pantherhound

potting this flop is standard.

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

If any other player does anything but fold you are scared. Hence your hand cant take pressure from tp raising in position, a draw raising in position a set/two pair raising for value. Also, if someone just calls with a draw can you really bet a blank turn? How do you know you arent out kicked, also how do you know you arent facing a typical set line that calls on the flop and raises the turn. Also how do you recognise a call with a flush draw from a call with a oesd draw (in other words which card is scary, a club or say a T?)

In other words you are putting money in the pot aainst a lot more ifs and buts than normal and you cant take anything from any other player but a fold. Thus c/f ing is the best option. By all means if the turn is a brick bet that pair but not on the flop.

It seems at the moment that we dont think about why we bet, we just do. Eg, people c-bet after raising preflop without thinking about why or even if they should. Same applies here. What does betting achieve? What does checking achieve better?
Just because you flopped a pair doesnt mean you have to insta-bet for protection. Sure, you want to get value from the best hand, but you dont want to get into situations that are avoidable to start with and will get you into sticky sitautions too often.

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

so basically don't bet into multiway pots with hands that have bad showdown value?

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

or even better, dont bet hands that have poor showdown value oop/vs multiple opponents on dangerous boards.

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

reverse implied odds.

That should explain why this pot isnt worth defending with T7. If you had a backdoor flush draw and good kicker say KT maybe QT id argue differently perhaps but certainly not here.

Originally Posted by samsonite2100

Yeah, but like I said, I don't think reverse implied odds are bad here since it's so easy to pitch this hand when facing any aggression. Honestly, with 4 players on the flop, I vary somewhat between checking and leading--depends on the table vibe, but on this turn, I'm always betting. This is one of those situations where we have no reason to think we're not ahead, and should act as if we are until told otherwise by villain.

Originally Posted by samsonite2100

Yeah, but like I said, I don't think reverse implied odds are bad here since it's so easy to pitch this hand when facing any aggression. Honestly, with 4 players on the flop, I vary somewhat between checking and leading--depends on the table vibe, but on this turn, I'm always betting. This is one of those situations where we have no reason to think we're not ahead, and should act as if we are until told otherwise by villain.

Originally Posted by samsonite2100

Yeah, but like I said, I don't think reverse implied odds are bad here since it's so easy to pitch this hand when facing any aggression.

Originally Posted by benny999

If the turn is a 4, 5, club, or an A...are you betting again? Or are you check folding? I don't think you are fully considering the positional disadvantage in this limped, multiway pot with no reads.