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100NL Berate my donkness.

  
 
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Margin Of Error
Old 12-01-2006, 09:08 PM     Post subject: 100NL Berate my donkness. #1 (permalink)  
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($26.70)
UTG+1 ($88.50)
MP1 ($20.45)
MP2 ($47.15)
Hero ($98.50)
CO ($169.80)
Button ($49)
SB ($99)
BB ($94.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T, T.
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, MP2 raises to $2, Hero calls $2, CO calls $2, 1 fold, SB calls $1.50, BB calls $1, UTG raises to $20, MP2 calls $18, Hero calls $18, CO folds, SB raises to $99.5, BB folds, UTG calls $6.70 (All-In), MP2 calls $27.15 (All-In), Hero calls $78.50 (All-In).

Flop: ($275.85) 2, 3, 6 (4 players, 3 all-in)

Turn: ($275.85) 4 (4 players, 3 all-in)

River: ($275.85) 2 (4 players, 3 all-in)

Final Pot: $275.85
She looked at me and said youz a baby right?
I told her, I'm 18 and live a crazy life
Plus I'll tell you what the 80's like
And I know what ladies like
 
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Da GOAT
Old 12-01-2006, 09:29 PM #2 (permalink)  
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christ!!!

eh hmm words of encouragment are coming easily.

trust in me that things can only get better

seriously tho we all have donk moments
Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
 
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givememyleg
Old 12-01-2006, 10:16 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Standard.

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Margin Of Error
Old 12-01-2006, 10:26 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
Standard.

Really? AI-PF w/ 1010 seems kind of ridiculous but the way the hand played out I had insane implied odds when I made the calls.
She looked at me and said youz a baby right?
I told her, I'm 18 and live a crazy life
Plus I'll tell you what the 80's like
And I know what ladies like
 
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Fnord
Old 12-01-2006, 11:04 PM #5 (permalink)  
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What's wrong here? You got it all-in with the best hand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Setzy
Old 12-01-2006, 11:10 PM     Post subject: Re: 100NL Berate my donkness. #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margin Of Error
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed)
The best hand? Are you kidding me?
Save your stories 'cuz they're all the same..
 
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Fnord
Old 12-01-2006, 11:56 PM     Post subject: Re: 100NL Berate my donkness. #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Setzy
The best hand? Are you kidding me?
No, Learn2ReadHands.

UTG calls $1, - Shortie has a hand he wants to play, god knows what.
2 folds, MP2 raises to $2, - MP has a luke-warm hand and is sweetening the pot and/or discouring others from re-raising. Then again he might be just terribly misplaying AA/KK.
Hero calls $2, - Hero could re-raise here.
CO calls $2, - CO wants to play.
1 fold, SB calls $1.50, - SB wants to play, if he had QQ+ he would almost always re-raise hre.
BB calls $1, - Cheap
UTG raises to $20, - UTG sees all the money on the table and is shoving something that probably has all-in value. Ax, pair.
MP2 calls $18, - MP2 figures he's pretty good against UTG's shove range.
Hero calls $18, - Hero should re-raise right here.
CO folds, - No more implied odds, this just became a pre-flop effective odds pot.
SB raises to $99.5, - SB figures to be in good shape with a hand he didn't want to raise up the first time. Figure something like AJ+, ATs, 88-JJ maybe a weakly played QQ.
BB folds, - Too expensive for his trash
UTG calls $6.70 (All-In), - Shortie can't fold here.
MP2 calls $27.15 (All-In), - MP2 refuses to fold.
Hero calls $78.50 (All-In). - We call because we figure to be ahead of SB for the deep money and gambling multi-way with TT isn't that bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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mcatdog
Old 12-02-2006, 01:06 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Like Ultimate George said the other day, NLHE isn't a game with a "magic strategy." Under normal circumstances, it's prudent to fold anything except AA or KK to a pre-flop all-in, but situations sometimes come up where the action makes it clear that probably no one has one of those hands. You recognized one of those situations and got in the pot and gambled with the best of it. NH sir.
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Margin Of Error
Old 12-02-2006, 01:26 AM #9 (permalink)  
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I also should have posted a read. I had about 1k hands on SB and he was 25/13, pretty lagg preflop, I had only played about 5 hands against him though so I'm an unknown. Shorties were both lagg donkeys. SB's all-in made it seem pretty clear that he didnt have something like AA/KK, because if he thought he had the best hand he wouldnt want to push me out, as the shorties were already committed. Now assuming that he wants to push me out, this implies some kind of weakness with his hand, I figured with this much money in the pot, if hes got JJ/QQ so be it, I'm getting odds and if he has 88/99/AK even occasionally I have to call.


Any faults in this logic?
She looked at me and said youz a baby right?
I told her, I'm 18 and live a crazy life
Plus I'll tell you what the 80's like
And I know what ladies like
 
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Phantaroth
Old 12-02-2006, 12:37 PM #10 (permalink)  
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I don't think his big raise means no AA/KK, think him just calling from the SB says no AA/KK... But I think this is like 77+, A10s+ atleast. As played I guess you have to call.

I think UTG has a big hand.
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martindcx1e
Old 12-02-2006, 04:42 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantaroth
I think UTG has a big hand.
me too. i'm not sure what to think about sb. he really confuses me.
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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Ravageur
Old 12-02-2006, 05:13 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Crazy hand, but I as well don't think you donked this up that badly. We can basically ignore UTG here because although AA is in his range, so are a bunch of small pairs that donks play like this. I'd be more worried that SB has JJ.
Family Cruise IMO
 
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Ravageur
Old 12-02-2006, 05:15 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Oh and plz post results of this hand at some point.
Family Cruise IMO
 
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Setzy
Old 12-02-2006, 05:27 PM #14 (permalink)  
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I read the hand, and I am still confident at least one of these people has a higher PP than TT. It wouldn't surprise me if UTG had AK+, MP2 JJ+, and CO at least 88. With no reads in the original post I assume these are your standard tight Stars 100NL players.
Save your stories 'cuz they're all the same..
 
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Margin Of Error
Old 12-02-2006, 05:31 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Setzy
I read the hand, and I am still confident at least one of these people has a higher PP than TT. It wouldn't surprise me if UTG had AK+, MP2 JJ+, and CO at least 88. With no reads in the original post I assume these are your standard tight Stars 100NL players.

Nah I posted my read on the hand a couple posts up.
She looked at me and said youz a baby right?
I told her, I'm 18 and live a crazy life
Plus I'll tell you what the 80's like
And I know what ladies like
 
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nutsinho
Old 12-02-2006, 06:14 PM #16 (permalink)  
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 "Hero calls $18"

-This should have been a reraise but you played it fine IMO
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Galapogos
Old 12-02-2006, 06:37 PM #17 (permalink)  
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 I think you should have reraised at every opportunity it came and you would have had a much clearer view of everyone's hands. However, as played you have to go all-in but I suspect SB has JJ-QQ.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
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Fnord
Old 12-03-2006, 08:48 AM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Setzy
With no reads in the original post I assume these are your standard tight Stars 100NL players.
The action is too far out of line for that kind of table texture.

Results?!?!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Setzy
Old 12-03-2006, 09:30 AM #19 (permalink)  
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When I said CO I meant SB, the guy that pushed for a full stack.

Very interested in the results also, as (no shit) the only hands I have seen anyone go all in preflop for a full stack and show down with is AA-JJ (JJ once) in the past week. Past week = 10k hands of Stars 100NL ring.
Save your stories 'cuz they're all the same..
 
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Fnord
Old 12-03-2006, 10:22 AM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Setzy
Very interested in the results also, as (no shit) the only hands I have seen anyone go all in preflop for a full stack and show down with is AA-JJ (JJ once) in the past week. Past week = 10k hands of Stars 100NL ring.
There is a really simple cure for that. It's called 6 max!

The TAggs bluff off their money, the fish call it off. Weee!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Lukie
Old 12-03-2006, 01:27 PM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Setzy
Very interested in the results also, as (no shit) the only hands I have seen anyone go all in preflop for a full stack and show down with is AA-JJ (JJ once) in the past week. Past week = 10k hands of Stars 100NL ring.
There is a really simple cure for that. It's called 6 max!

The TAggs bluff off their money, the fish call it off. Weee!

The Studs jam their suited connectors preflop and bare gutshots postflop and hit. WHEEEEEEEE!
POKERSTARS GAME #7278941227: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2006/12/03 - 03:55:40 (ET)
Table 'Nauplius IV' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 2: Lucas12 ($198 in chips)
Seat 3: slavery_lol ($435.05 in chips)
Seat 4: NutsInYoEye ($410.45 in chips)
Seat 5: paulboogie ($203 in chips)
Seat 6: Lukieplaya ($197 in chips)
Lucas12: posts small blind $1
slavery_lol: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Lukieplaya [Ts 9s]
NutsInYoEye: folds
paulboogie: folds
Lukieplaya: raises $6 to $8
Lucas12: calls $7
slavery_lol: raises $30 to $38
Lukieplaya: raises $159 to $197 and is all-in
Lucas12: folds
slavery_lol: calls $159
*** FLOP *** [Js 3c 6h]
*** TURN *** [Js 3c 6h] [9d]
*** RIVER *** [Js 3c 6h 9d] [2d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
slavery_lol: shows [Ah Qs] (high card Ace)
Lukieplaya: shows [Ts 9s] (a pair of Nines)
Lukieplaya collected $400 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $402 | Rake $2
Board [Js 3c 6h 9d 2d]
Seat 2: Lucas12 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: slavery_lol (big blind) showed [Ah Qs] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 4: NutsInYoEye folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: paulboogie folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Lukieplaya (button) showed [Ts 9s] and won ($400) with a pair of Nines

(sorry for the hijack, I think in the original hand, the first action preflop is a raise unless UTG is a ridiculously tight shortstack and is obviously going for a limp/push with AK/big pair type range--unlikely. Once action gets back to us the second time, I think the correct play is to push ourselves unless we are confident that there is a huge hand in front of us--dead money negates this a lot so we have to be very confident-- and once action gets around to us the third time it's an obvious call. We're just getting laid too sick of odds to fold here.)
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Margin Of Error
Old 12-03-2006, 05:52 PM #22 (permalink)  
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($26.70)
UTG+1 ($88.50)
MP1 ($20.45)
MP2 ($47.15)
Hero ($98.50)
CO ($169.80)
Button ($49)
SB ($99)
BB ($94.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T, T.
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, MP2 raises to $2, Hero calls $2, CO calls $2, 1 fold, SB calls $1.50, BB calls $1, UTG raises to $20, MP2 calls $18, Hero calls $18, CO folds, SB raises to $99.5, BB folds, UTG calls $6.70 (All-In), MP2 calls $27.15 (All-In), Hero calls $78.50 (All-In).

Flop: ($275.85) 2, 3, 6 (4 players, 3 all-in)

Turn: ($275.85) 4 (4 players, 3 all-in)

River: ($275.85) 2 (4 players, 3 all-in)

Final Pot: $275.85

Results in white below:
SB has Kd Ad (one pair, twos).
UTG has Jc Qh (one pair, twos).
MP2 has Th Qs (one pair, twos).
Hero has Tc Td (two pair, tens and twos).
Outcome: Hero wins $274.85. SB wins $1.
She looked at me and said youz a baby right?
I told her, I'm 18 and live a crazy life
Plus I'll tell you what the 80's like
And I know what ladies like
 
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Fnord
Old 12-03-2006, 07:00 PM #23 (permalink)  
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Fnord read hands g00t.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Setzy
Old 12-04-2006, 01:25 AM #24 (permalink)  
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Way to go! Guess that's why I'm moving back down
Save your stories 'cuz they're all the same..
 
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nutsinho
Old 12-04-2006, 02:26 AM #25 (permalink)  
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 with those hands against you it is really close to breakeven-anyone wanna do the calculations?
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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jackvance
Old 12-04-2006, 02:50 AM #26 (permalink)  
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 According to my calculator, AKs is the big favorite here

TT: 26%
AKs: 45%
QJo: 22%
QTo: 7%
Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
 
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nutsinho
Old 12-04-2006, 03:03 AM #27 (permalink)  
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 well you have to do the calcs for each individual pot
there would be a main pot and two individual side pots
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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mcatdog
Old 12-04-2006, 06:13 AM #28 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
with those hands against you it is really close to breakeven-anyone wanna do the calculations?
Ya, but he got unlucky that they didn't share each other's overcards, which they will a lot of the time in which case he'll have a big edge.
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Fnord
Old 12-04-2006, 08:29 AM #29 (permalink)  
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As a rule of thumb, hands like TT have the most all-in value heads-up, lose an assload of value 3-way but gain back equity as you add more hands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Margin Of Error
Old 12-04-2006, 05:17 PM #30 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
with those hands against you it is really close to breakeven-anyone wanna do the calculations?
Ya, but he got unlucky that they didn't share each other's overcards, which they will a lot of the time in which case he'll have a big edge.

Yeah I expected shorties to flip over QJ/KQ/AQ/AJ rather than QJ/QT. Unless you can put the SB solely on an overpair to your tens I think you have to make that call.
She looked at me and said youz a baby right?
I told her, I'm 18 and live a crazy life
Plus I'll tell you what the 80's like
And I know what ladies like
 
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Rondavu
Old 12-04-2006, 06:02 PM #31 (permalink)  
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Without a read I fold to the original UTG limp reraise to $20. I most definately NEVER flat call it. Sooooo bad. I hate this hand for the most part, even though it turned out cool.

I agreed with most of Fnords progressive assessment. The way the action played out, it became obvious only one person could possibly have better than TT. I puke and race once my odds are set as well, but like I said, I would have never put myself in that position.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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Margin Of Error
Old 12-04-2006, 06:51 PM #32 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
Without a read I fold to the original UTG limp reraise to $20. I most definately NEVER flat call it. Sooooo bad. I hate this hand for the most part, even though it turned out cool.

I strongly disagree with this. The shorties are already committed once MP2 calls the $20. I think typically the SB isnt going to push there but flat call. In that situation you are much better seeing the flop 4 ways for $20, because if an overcard comes on the flop you can get away as cheaply as possible. If you push-reraise and a scare card comes on the flop you are now nearly pot committed and are getting odds to call even though you're almost for sure behind.
She looked at me and said youz a baby right?
I told her, I'm 18 and live a crazy life
Plus I'll tell you what the 80's like
And I know what ladies like
 
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Rondavu
Old 12-04-2006, 08:34 PM #33 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margin Of Error
If you push-reraise and a scare card comes on the flop you are now nearly pot committed
If you play the hand you push.

After the shorties are committed you make a choice whether you are ahead of them or not and push or fold, since you already know the rest of the people in hand are behind your range based on their actions, and implied odds are no longer a factor with all the potential dead money lying around in a 3 way pot with a vulnerable pair.

If you push TT, and QJ calls behind you so be it. If you call, and someone else calls behind you correctly with QJ and hits or bluffs you when some other overcard hits, that's a HUGE mistake on your part.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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zenbitz
Old 12-04-2006, 10:56 PM #34 (permalink)  
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Nice table selection, sirrah.
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