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100NL: 2 pair check-raised on the river by a solid player

  
 
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mcatdog
Old 04-10-2006, 08:38 PM     Post subject: 100NL: 2 pair check-raised on the river by a solid player #1 (permalink)  
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Villain is a multitabler who seems to have some kind of a clue how to play. I have him at 25/7 over 300 hands and haven't seen him check-raise a single time in that period. He seems a little passive and not very imaginative, but I think he's at least a winning player. UTG and Button are both really terrible, if that matters.

My first instinct was to fold, my 2 pair isn't a very strong 2 pair and I'm facing a check-raise by a solid player. But I ran my time bank down for awhile because I wondered what he could possibly have that he would play like this? I eventually WTF-called him because I just couldn't put him on a hand, I'm not sure whether or not I was correct to do so. Thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP ($97)
Button ($103.65)
SB ($119.65)
Hero ($205.95)
UTG ($107.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3, Q.
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($4) 6, Q, 3 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, UTG folds, Button folds, SB calls $3.

Turn: ($10) A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $7, SB calls $7.

River: ($24) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, SB raises to $35, Hero calls ?????
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piratepeaty
Old 04-10-2006, 10:36 PM     Post subject: Re: 100NL: 2 pair check-raised on the river by a solid playe #2 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
Villain is a multitabler who seems to have some kind of a clue how to play. I have him at 25/7 over 300 hands and haven't seen him check-raise a single time in that period. He seems a little passive and not very imaginative, but I think he's at least a winning player. UTG and Button are both really terrible, if that matters.

My first instinct was to fold, my 2 pair isn't a very strong 2 pair and I'm facing a check-raise by a solid player. But I ran my time bank down for awhile because I wondered what he could possibly have that he would play like this? I eventually WTF-called him because I just couldn't put him on a hand, I'm not sure whether or not I was correct to do so. Thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP ($97)
Button ($103.65)
SB ($119.65)
Hero ($205.95)
UTG ($107.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3, Q.
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($4) 6, Q, 3 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, UTG folds, Button folds, SB calls $3.

Turn: ($10) A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $7, SB calls $7.

River: ($24) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, SB raises to $35, Hero calls ?????
His line looks like a missed flush, possible 2 pair (with an ace) or trips. It is possible he was drawing to the nut flush, and caught A5. I'm also thinking AQ is a possiblity.

I call this sometimes and sometimes fold. These are the things I consider:
1)what is his aggression factor?
2) does he slowplay big hands?
3) has he been winning today or losing? it is possible he got frustrated about missing another draw and bet out. This is probably the biggest factor besides never being c/r.
4) how quickly did he call the flop and turn?
5) does he raise/bet draws?

I don't really see why he raises now... so I probably call most of the time, but I don't feel great about it.
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Fnord
Old 04-10-2006, 10:49 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Really funny hand, his raise size suggests that he wants a call and isn't trying to blow you off of something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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nutsinho
Old 04-11-2006, 01:24 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Your river bet suggests there's a good chance you have AQ or better, loose passive raises...
FOLD
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Renton
Old 04-11-2006, 03:14 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 i think i bet the river a little less here. Not because I am afraid of a reraise, but because I am afraid of a fold. Probably 1/3 of the pot.

I fold to the reraise. Thats a valueraise if I ever saw one. I'd probably call a push
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mcatdog
Old 04-11-2006, 04:45 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Yeah, the bet size is screaming "I have you beat," but what do you guys put him on, and why would he play it that way? Keep in mind that he doesn't suck.
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BankItDrew
Old 04-11-2006, 05:33 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 looks like a busted draw and he's repping the ace or better. Your riverbet seems large, so I think he may have taken that as a weakness. I'd call. I wouldn't bet more than half the pot on this board though, but rather value it for him. Most of the time, a value bet actually looks like a stronger hand than a large bet would.


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mcatdog
Old 04-11-2006, 02:01 PM #8 (permalink)  
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He showed Q 4
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piratepeaty
Old 04-11-2006, 07:10 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
He showed Q 4
ahhh... the standard, "I missed the flush raise".
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drmcboy
Old 04-11-2006, 08:10 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 check behind? seems like he had to have the draw, it missed. Does he pay off with naked A?
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Fnord
Old 04-11-2006, 08:18 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmcboy
check behind? seems like he had to have the draw, it missed. Does he pay off with naked A?
If he might make a silly little c/r with Qx and you'll call it down, then it's an even better value bet.

I think the opponent's play here is interesting. What's his best line:
check/fold
check/call
check/raise
I think we can rule out betting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
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mcatdog
Old 04-11-2006, 09:25 PM #12 (permalink)  
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His check-raise wasn't that silly considering that I nearly folded to it, and several posters here would have folded. I think it's a good idea to remind ourselves to actually try to put our opponents on a hand, instead of just saying "OMG a passive player check-raised, he must have the nuts!!!111" I couldn't come up with a reasonable hand for him to have that fit his betting pattern, so I called.

Fnord, are you talking about my opponent's river line? Because if I were him I would have bet the flop 100% of the time.
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Fnord
Old 04-11-2006, 09:28 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
Fnord, are you talking about my opponent's river line? Because if I were him I would have bet the flop 100% of the time.
Good point. I'm about 75% bet here. I think it's a great spot to pick off people who like to position to bet unloved pots though. He's got showdown value and outs to a hand he can felt.
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