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spoonitnow
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10-06-2008, 03:36 AM
Post subject: $50nl - What are the best/worst I should have here?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Villain is relative unknown, but 36/25 or so after 40 hands. What are the best and worst hands that I should have on the river here?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP2 ($70.45)
MP3 ($57.15)
CO ($48.50)
Button ($49.75)
SB ($115.65)
Hero (BB) ($51.50)
UTG ($43.85)
UTG+1 ($26)
MP1 ($50)
Preflop: Hero is BB
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50, 3 folds, Hero raises to $3, MP2 calls $2.50, 1 fold
Flop: ($6.75) 3 , 6 , 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $4.50, MP2 calls $4.50
Turn: ($15.75) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $10.50, MP2 calls $10.50
River: ($36.75) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $30.50, Hero calls $30.50
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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JinxT4
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 265
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Worst: JJ or QQ
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[04:18] <+Bbickes> do u has teh agoraphobia?
[04:18] <+fat> im agressive yes
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cowboyardee
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 66
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Edited cuz I don't like my first answer.
To me his line looks like 9x, TT, JJ. Possible weird full house or bluff line.
Best: 45
Worst: JJ
I hope those figures don't make me look retarded.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Based on timing maybe AQ or better maybe 77 or better
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No, 45 is not a hand that would be played this way because we raised 3x preflop
if were semi-bluffing PF we'd raise like 5 buxx
am I wrong here?
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JinxT4
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 265
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
if were semi-bluffing PF we'd raise like 5 buxx
am I wrong here?
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Why would spoon make his pf raise size any different with a "semi-bluff" than what he normally would raise to? Also, I'm not sure if raising pf would be considered "semi-bluffing."
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[04:18] <+Bbickes> do u has teh agoraphobia?
[04:18] <+fat> im agressive yes
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
No, 45 is not a hand that would be played this way because we raised 3x preflop
if were semi-bluffing PF we'd raise like 5 buxx
am I wrong here?
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it was 6x and I'm pretty sure spoon would raise the same with his entire range because he doesn't suck.
77 is maybe good, I'm not sure if I'd two barrel with 7s though or if I'd just let him bet the turn so I'm going to say TT.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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Keilah
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern BC, Canada
Posts: 658
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Ahhh wtf I posted but my internet fuxored and didn't actually make the post happen. I do again.
Oh turns out I didn't notice Spoon was the BB when I made my first post so I said wrong things. Umm let's see... 54 is just going to check the option like 99.9% you donks. Boats and quads would obviously not just flat the river. Actually his range is pretty small, it's probably pairs TT+ (maybe 88/77 but that'd need a better read on villain for turn bet + river call) and A9, maybe K9s if Spoon likes to raise that from the BB. Probably doesn't have KK/AA either or he'd lead or raise the river.
So 1 pair, pocket or otherwise, 9's thru Q's.
One thing I wish we knew was if villain had a hait of playing his draws passively and then bluffing large on a missed river, a lot of guys with his stats will do that. Or if we thought he'd play the same and then vbet thin with TT, then we can take 9x out of our call range.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Deanglow is like so smart it's not even funny.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,807
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hands that beat a6
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aw wtf I thought he raised 3x, misreads
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wakeup
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 117
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TT, maybe A9, he's so loose and seems aggro pre so might bluff missed draws
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Deanglow is like so smart it's not even funny.
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sarcasm?
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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it seems like you shouldnt barrel random overcards on this turn so I am reluctant to say "Ace high!!!" but if i had like QJss id be tempted to call the river. obviously any weak pair A6+ should bet turn c/c river. JJ+ should probably shove rather than c/c river.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Deanglow is like so smart it's not even funny.
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sarcasm? |
Actually no. I don't know why but there's something about your delivery in posts that makes me have a lot of "aha" moments right after I'm done reading them.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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it seems like you shouldnt barrel random overcards on this turn so I am reluctant to say "Ace high!!!" but if i had like QJss id be tempted to call the river. obviously any weak pair A6+ should bet turn c/c river. JJ+ should probably shove rather than c/c river.
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Only slightly off topic, but if we had AK and the turn was a K, would you be more for a c/c or shove on the river? I'm thinking shove since our hand has so much value but I'm still mulling it over.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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cowboyardee
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 66
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Effective stack sizes made me think that villain was probably not on a draw by the river (on turn, pot odds and implied odds were no good for opponent).
How much credit do you give his stats, given lack of other reads? Over 40 hands, opp could just be on a heater or fucking with a weak table. Barring any info showing he actually plays like a laggtard postflop, I don't see how calling with stuff like A-high is anything but a spew here. I assumed a competent though not great player, but is that wrong at these limits and those stats?
(Also from opp's point of view, Spoons line looks a lot like A9, 77,88,TT-KK,AK-AT -- He would likely expect a call from the pps ten and up here.)
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cowboyardee
Effective stack sizes made me think that villain was probably not on a draw by the river (on turn, pot odds and implied odds were no good for opponent).
How much credit do you give his stats, given lack of other reads? Over 40 hands, opp could just be on a heater or fucking with a weak table. Barring any info showing he actually plays like a laggtard postflop, I don't see how calling with stuff like A-high is anything but a spew here. I assumed a competent though not great player, but is that wrong at these limits and those stats?
(Also from opp's point of view, Spoons line looks a lot like A9, 77,88,TT-KK,AK-AT -- He would likely expect a call from the pps ten and up here.)
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oh, so we should only call here with a boat. now i know why i dont win at 10ptbb.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cowboyardee
Effective stack sizes made me think that villain was probably not on a draw by the river (on turn, pot odds and implied odds were no good for opponent).
How much credit do you give his stats, given lack of other reads? Over 40 hands, opp could just be on a heater or fucking with a weak table. Barring any info showing he actually plays like a laggtard postflop, I don't see how calling with stuff like A-high is anything but a spew here. I assumed a competent though not great player, but is that wrong at these limits and those stats?
(Also from opp's point of view, Spoons line looks a lot like A9, 77,88,TT-KK,AK-AT -- He would likely expect a call from the pps ten and up here.)
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You have poor hand reading skills and give too much credit to your opponents. Play/post some more hands rather than post more advice.
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cowboyardee
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 66
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Quote:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cowboyardee
Effective stack sizes made me think that villain was probably not on a draw by the river (on turn, pot odds and implied odds were no good for opponent).
How much credit do you give his stats, given lack of other reads? Over 40 hands, opp could just be on a heater or fucking with a weak table. Barring any info showing he actually plays like a laggtard postflop, I don't see how calling with stuff like A-high is anything but a spew here. I assumed a competent though not great player, but is that wrong at these limits and those stats?
(Also from opp's point of view, Spoons line looks a lot like A9, 77,88,TT-KK,AK-AT -- He would likely expect a call from the pps ten and up here.)
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oh, so we should only call here with a boat. now i know why i dont win at 10ptbb. |
Not what I meant. I already stated that IMO we should be calling with at least JJ (and raising what little we got left with a boat)
But the point was more that i didn't understand the logic of calling with like A high or something lower than a pair of nines. And since Spoon, whose other posts have often been very helpful to me, seemed to agree with others that calling with AQ/77+ was +EV, i wanted to know the rationale for this. I didn't mean to imply that it was wrong -- I assumed my thinking was wrong. Sorry if that didn't come across.
I was I was trying to phrase my post as a question in hopes that someone would explain it to me. Are opps at this level often in the habit of calling on an empty draw in spots like that turn?
That's not rhetorical -- i don't play online and was under the impression that online opps at 50nl were sort of competent compared to their live counterparts.
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DaddyDeez
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: missoula, MT
Posts: 113
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best: 99?
worst: possibly an over pair would of been played really poorly here?
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I post nonconstructive piss
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaddyDeez
best: 99?
worst: possibly an over pair would of been played really poorly here?
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We should never have 99 here, doucy?
Hint: We checked the river.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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DaddyDeez
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: missoula, MT
Posts: 113
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaddyDeez
best: 99?
worst: possibly an over pair would of been played really poorly here?
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We should never have 99 here, doucy?
Hint: We checked the river. |
yea i c why. c/c the river with the 2nd nutz would be terrible.
i'm lost cuz im not sure what we raise here from the BB ofcourse we raise AK, and JJ+ possibly AQs.
if we have AQ or AK spades would betting the turn and Check - Calling the River really be +ev? his stats seem to suggest his range is large & he limp/called so im lost on villains range as well. obv he would do this with suited connectors and small pp's so if we put him on a missed flush draw.
AQ+ would be well played here. yea?
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I post nonconstructive piss
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