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$50NL QQ 3bets and gets 4 bet

  
 
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allabout
Old 08-20-2009, 06:49 PM     Post subject: $50NL QQ 3bets and gets 4 bet #1 (permalink)  
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Couple questions here. 1st, is it a good spot to even 3bet? Sometimes I do, often I don't. When I'm 4bet I obviously can't call, so shove or fold?

SS in the hand is a total fish, other V is 15/11 over 1.5k hands and I have him folding to a 3bet only 4 of 12 times (including this one).

Absolute/UB Cereus No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Absolute/UB Cereus Replayer from Poker Hands Replayer



saw flop

Button ($39.90)
Hero (SB) ($98.53)
BB ($20)
UTG ($19.50)
UTG+1 ($51.70)
MP1 ($43.85)
MP2 ($24.45)
MP3 ($71.55)
CO ($47)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, Q
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 bets $2, 2 folds, Hero raises to $7.50, 2 folds, MP2 calls $7, MP3 raises to $27, Hero raises to $98.53 (All-In), MP2 calls $16.95 (All-In), MP3 calls $44.55 (All-In)
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BankItDrew
Old 08-20-2009, 07:12 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 I think the fact that we are so deep is the biggest reason to be convinced that this guy has a better hand. What makes me think we are ahead is the initial pussy raise to $2.

It's not that bad though tbh because he could very well have been taking advantage of the limpers and it can't be counted out that he may be aware that you could be taking advantage of this with any sort of hand with your 3bet.


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pokerfan
Old 08-21-2009, 03:35 AM #3 (permalink)  
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easy fold for me.
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BluffCheck
Old 08-22-2009, 10:30 PM #4 (permalink)  

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fold, 15/11 is not 4betting in this spot with worse imo, also you're wayyy deep to be shoving QQ. he calls with AA/KK and folds everything you're ahead of if you shove.
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Benzooka
Old 08-24-2009, 07:00 AM #5 (permalink)  
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superdonk ATM fistpumping aside,
The main villian has only folded to 3/11 three bets - do you have his preflop 4bet+ percentage? if it's 8/11 do a cartwheel onto the mouse pointer on top of the shove button. With the equity you'd be kill-ill-ing his range. If he's got better, be ok with it.
If its 1/11 grin and fold - make a note if he rolls over anything cheeky
If you planned to "suck out" you did the first half.
 
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daven
Old 08-24-2009, 07:48 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 i find a fold here deep.
The fold to 3-bet stat means he's bet-calling TT, and calling the sb 3-bets vs his steal. It doesn't typically mean that he's 4-betting light from ep
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

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Benzooka
Old 08-24-2009, 08:19 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzooka
do you have his preflop 4bet+ percentage?
If you planned to "suck out" you did the first half.
 
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daven
Old 08-24-2009, 08:36 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzooka
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzooka
do you have his preflop 4bet+ percentage?
sample size... go ahead and base decisions for stacks on numbers that do not have the sample size to be anything other than meaningless
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Benzooka
Old 08-24-2009, 09:01 AM #9 (permalink)  
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calling or betting 8/11 3bets is a significant sample.

If you're raising 11% of hands, and of the times you're three bet you continue 73% of times something is suspect. That's about 50% of the sample's size worth of deviation from the mean of AA/KK holdings that beat us. That monstrous deviation makes the sample size relavent.
If you planned to "suck out" you did the first half.
 
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daven
Old 08-24-2009, 12:17 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzooka
calling or betting 8/11 3bets is a significant sample.
agree completely

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzooka
If you're raising 11% of hands, and of the times you're three bet you continue 73% of times something is suspect. That's about 50% of the sample's size worth of deviation from the mean of AA/KK holdings that beat us. That monstrous deviation makes the sample size relavent.
true. I wonder how many of these were calls of min-3-bets, calls of sb 3-bets or squeezes, etc.

What I am trying to say is that if he has 4-bet 2/11 then this information doesn't help us. If he has 4-bet 6/11 then you're right, shove away.
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

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badgers
Old 08-24-2009, 02:05 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Congrats on flopping the nuts.

I don't really like the 3bet, all it achieves is it isolates the regular deep when we are OOP. I much prefer a call to keep the fish in the pot, unless you knew he was a big enough fish to limp/call a 3bet with SCs in which case it is a clear 3bet for value but then we have to cry and fold when 4bet by the reg. At least if the fish is that terrible the reg is going to give us respect when we 3bet here.
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BankItDrew
Old 08-24-2009, 08:53 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badgers
I don't really like the 3bet, all it achieves is it isolates the regular deep when we are OOP. I much prefer a call to keep the fish in the pot
If we call preflop, we are now playing 4way oop with a huge hand. We have an opportunity to induce a mistake preflop with a 3bet vs 3 villains, but by calling we are the ones making the mistake and the other three are benefiting from it.


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allabout
Old 08-25-2009, 08:00 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzooka
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzooka
do you have his preflop 4bet+ percentage?
He has 4bet 3/12 so it was 2/11 I guess before this hand.
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bikes
Old 08-25-2009, 10:01 PM #14 (permalink)  
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allabout
Old 08-25-2009, 10:20 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badgers
Congrats on flopping the nuts.

I don't really like the 3bet, all it achieves is it isolates the regular deep when we are OOP. I much prefer a call to keep the fish in the pot, unless you knew he was a big enough fish to limp/call a 3bet with SCs in which case it is a clear 3bet for value but then we have to cry and fold when 4bet by the reg. At least if the fish is that terrible the reg is going to give us respect when we 3bet here.
Ya its nice to flop good once in a while. Ya that's what I was wondering. I was hoping the reg might think I'm 3betting light, but not sure if he would really go that far/think that deeply about it.
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