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$25NL - Top Two Pair

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andy-akb

04-02-2006, 10:57 PM Post subject: $25NL - Top Two Pair

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Maine

Posts: 1,836

The hand converter isnt working too well with empire hand histories so this is the raw text. Alright, I get dealt AQo in late position and raise to 4xBB the TAGish BB calls. Flop gives me TPTK, BB checks I lead for a little less than the pot, BB minraises. Not too sure what to think of there, so I called with the intention of slowing down on the turn. The turn gives me an ace, so now I have top two pair, BB leads for half the pot and I push. Do you go broke here? How should I have played this?

***** Hand History for Game 2940009613 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, April 02, 18:47:40 EDT 2006
Table Table 36745 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: DeadEyeDickX ( $50.65 )
Seat 2: brat_dudman ( $6.95 )
Seat 3: nvega1 ( $8.65 )
Seat 5: Blugold80 ( $6.15 )
Seat 7: madjoe69 ( $16 )
Seat 8: postman5 ( $4.35 )
Seat 10: cuams420 ( $48.35 )
Seat 9: AKBaldacci ( $25.45 )
Seat 4: Vinny_Kidd ( $24.75 )
Seat 6: uvawahoowa ( $15 )
cuams420 posts small blind [$0.10].
DeadEyeDickX posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to AKBaldacci [ Qc Ah ]
>You have options at Table 36717 Table!.
brat_dudman folds.
>You have options at Table 36866 Table!.
nvega1 folds.
Vinny_Kidd calls [$0.25].
Blugold80 folds.
madjoe69 folds.
postman5 folds.
AKBaldacci raises [$1].
cuams420 folds.
DeadEyeDickX calls [$0.75].
Vinny_Kidd folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qd, 4h, 5d ]
DeadEyeDickX checks.
>You have options at Table 36717 Table!.
>You have options at Table 36629 Table!.
AKBaldacci bets [$2].
DeadEyeDickX raises [$4].
>You have options at Table 36866 Table!.
AKBaldacci calls [$2].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ac ]
DeadEyeDickX bets [$5].
>You have options at Table 36629 Table!.
AKBaldacci is all-In [$20.45]
DeadEyeDickX calls [$15.45].
** Dealing River ** [ 8d ]
DeadEyeDickX shows [ 5c, 5h ] three of a kind, fives.
AKBaldacci doesn't show [ Qc, Ah ] two pairs, aces and queens.
DeadEyeDickX wins $48.70 from the main pot with three of a kind, fives.
>You have options at Table 36866 Table!.

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jackvance

04-03-2006, 02:39 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

jackvance is an unknown quantity at this point

On the flop he can be expected to have one of 5 things due to his reraise: AQ, Q4, Q5, 44, 55 (+maybe KQ). Other possibilities I can see are AA, KK, QQ, maybe JJ (TT) if he thinks you don't have the Q and just c-bet. Since he's tight, Q4/Q5 is pretty much a slim chance. That means that he has a bigger chance to have you beat on the flop than that you have a winner. with 44/55 we would expect he slowplays you, which is not a certainty. So he "could" have 44/55. But you only need to invest $2 into a $10 pot, so 1/5th, so calling his reraise is an option.

But what can we expect from the turn to put our hand above his? In the case of AA, only a Q. In the case of pp, only a Q. In the case of Q4/Q5 (which is highly unlikely to begin with), an A or a Q. In the case of KK, an A or Q. In the case of underpair, we have him beat anyway. So if it was a bluff attempt or an attempt to semi-bluff you with a second-best hand, we'd expect him to calm down on the turn. So calling or folding is a toss-up for me. I'd call, no need to fold TPTK for a min-reraise. But beware what he does on the turn here.

Now you get an A. You got an improvement on your hand, but it's deceptive. Since he pushes all-in, he actually did have something and is not trying to bluff you out. The slim chance at Q4/Q5 is out the window completely now.. he won't push all-in on a turn A with that. KK/JJ/TT/KQ is unlikely too. He won't push all-in after an overcard shows up. So, barring the slim chance this is some weird bluff (highly unlikely), we can only realistically expect him to be holding AA/AQ/QQ/44/55. One you tie, the other 4 you lose. The all-in forces you to invest 40%. So even if you put his move at 1/4 or 25% to be a bluff, you're still -EV to call this.

EDIT: misread the river play, I thought the other guy pushed all-in. Since he raised a small amount, here you shoulda called and considered a fold. The only callers you get on your all-in will have you beat with a slim chance at a tie as I depicted above. Half a pot bet puts you at a 25% investment, so call or fold as you please.

Renton

04-03-2006, 06:01 AM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

check the turn.

Don't ever think that since you hit two pair, your chances of winning have improved. If you weren't ahead to begin with, then two pair means nothing.

Think about it. The only way that hitting the second pair would EVER help you in this hand is if A) Opponent has KK (not likely since he didn't rr preflop) or B) Opponent has Q4 or Q5 (even more unlikely).

Generally hitting a second pair is meaningless, particularly when you originally had the TPTK.

sunfunbunch

04-03-2006, 06:08 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 176

Meh...I've had this happen several times as well.

One thing I've learned: Flopping two pair IS different from turning a TWO pair.

I might pay villian off if I flop it, but throwing around my stack on the turn when I was raised on a pretty harmless board on the flop is usually a "no, no" for me.

joshuadzl

04-03-2006, 08:06 AM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Seattle, Wa

Posts: 287

Top two is pretty and hard to get away from. However, look at this way. What are you beating outside of a bluff? I like Jack's post here.

So aces through jacks. If he had the jacks, he could of been feeling you out for a Queen with the reraise. Aces as well. Now, if he had Kings, we're ahead here. You put him as a tight player, so the assumption is on that he has a pocket pair. When this ace hits on the turn, you regauge yourself. If he has kings or jacks, chances are he is folding to a bet. If he has aces or queens, we're screwed. If he already had that low PP, we know we're already beat. I like a small bet here on the turn. Feel him out. Don't push your stack here in situations like that, you're only getting called by hands that beat you.

I think you just got excited for T2P.

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$25NL - Top Two Pair

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