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$25NL - Suited Ace OOP, check this line.

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GatorJH

04-10-2008, 07:39 PM Post subject: $25NL - Suited Ace OOP, check this line.

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: HotLanta

Posts: 3,179

Looking at this in hindsight I think my river bet should have been bigger, but in the heat of the moment the paired board had me concerned that a flopped set just made a boat. I know that if I was truly worried about that then c/c is better than leading out, however I just couldn't see checking the nut flush here.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

MP1 ($11.60)
MP2 ($24.75)
CO ($22.30)
Button ($32.05)
SB ($25)
Hero ($25.45)
UTG ($31)
UTG+1 ($24.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with

.
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP1 raises to $1, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.75, UTG calls $0.75.

Flop: ($3.10)

(3 players)
Hero bets $2.25, UTG calls $2.25, MP1 folds.

Turn: ($7.60)

(2 players)
Hero bets $5, UTG calls $5.

River: ($17.60)

(2 players)
Hero bets $8.5, UTG calls $8.50.

Final Pot: $34.60

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tom

04-10-2008, 10:33 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2005

Location: ATX

Posts: 158

I'm just gonna take a stab at this to get some sort of discussion going, I'm still at $10 so keep that in mind

wouldn't the made flush on the turn be a good place to check? nothing like betting a scare card to get villain to fold... if he has a set, he almost has to bet there right? c/push turn and don't worry if they hit their boat, or feel free to bet harder on the river if they check behind.

as played I'd probably do something closer to pot size ~$14 or so, seems like anything less and you're just asking for somebody to push

I'm probably missing something but thats my early assessment

d0zer

04-10-2008, 11:02 PM

#3 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 2,521

A read is extremely helpful here.

If the guy is loose at all, I just push the river and expect to get looked up by 99+, straights, worse flushes, etc...

An uber-nit isn't paying you off on that board with less than a nut flush, so I maybe c/c the river?

swiggidy

04-11-2008, 12:11 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom

I'm just gonna take a stab at this to get some sort of discussion going, I'm still at $10 so keep that in mind

Checking the turn is terrible, just like betting the turn with a set when checked to is terrible. Only folding worse, getting called by better with a hand that you can't really protect in a medium pot.

If villain pushes it's barely more than a min-raise so I don't see a fold without a read.

At microstakes think more ABC than FPS.
Value bet >> anything else

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Fnord

04-11-2008, 12:27 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Bet more on the flop. You don't have to balance as many bluffs in this spot.

Also, I usually dump this pre-flop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

tom

04-11-2008, 12:50 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2005

Location: ATX

Posts: 158

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

I did a quick look for a discussion of this but couldn't find one. I'd love a thread to read or a more in depth explanation behind this. I believe you, I'd just like to see why so I can apply it to myself better.

swiggidy

04-11-2008, 01:05 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Ok, first pretend you're villain. Why do you bet the turn with a set? Are you hoping to get called by someone drawing to the 4 flush? (you can't because you have no idea where you're at). Are you betting hoping to get called by an overpair or 78? If you're trying to take down the pot, why does it even matter that you have the set, air would be just as good most of the time.

rewind that. Why did you flat call the flop with a set in the first place? nm.

So villain should be checking behind turn trying to hit a boat.

Now, if we were playing vs villains who use aggression and will bet scare cards into weakness, then checking turn may be the right play. But at micro-stakes, the random player is either checking scare cards, or betting 2bb and folding to a raise. So we get nothing by checking the turn. If we bet the turn, we will get folds a lot, but when we don't we're likely getting someone's stack. Sometimes you'll get called by straights, overpairs, rag flush, etc.

One thing I don't mind here is betting a little weaker than normal, encouraging them to call.

Feel free to disagree.

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Fnord

04-11-2008, 01:32 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

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I bet sets on 3-flush boards for value.

Against passive opponents I'm value betting 2pr and strong one pair hands.

If my range is air and flushes then my range has too much air the way I play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

swiggidy

04-11-2008, 01:39 AM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I bet sets on 3-flush boards for value.

Against passive opponents I'm value betting 2pr and strong one pair hands.

If my range is air and flushes then my range has too much air the way I play.

you are not a random 25NL villain

{edit: just realized fnord was talking about hero}

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

GatorJH

04-11-2008, 04:37 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: HotLanta

Posts: 3,179

thanks for the comments guys. Slowly but surely this is all starting to make some sense to me (thanks Swig, our chat last night turned a light on for me).

With that said I don't quite understand what the two below comments mean (damn I feel like a newbie at times)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Bet more on the flop. You don't have to balance as many bluffs in this spot.

What do you mean by "balance as many bluffs in this spot"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

If my range is air and flushes then my range has too much air the way I play.

HUH? I know what you mean by your range being air and flushes, but you lost me when you said "my range has too much air the way I play".

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