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$10NL chasing

  
 
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Pants_101
Old 05-10-2007, 06:18 PM     Post subject: $10NL chasing #1 (permalink)  
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Here's a hand where I was unsure of the correct strategy at various points. Here's what I did but what would you have done and why? Neither villain is any good at all. Thanks all

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $2.53
UTG+1: $8.61
MP1: $2.91
MP2: $7.83
CO: $2.01
Button: $9.55
Hero: $9.80
BB: $1.85

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is SB with 2 7
UTG calls, 4 folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: K A 9 ($0.4, 4 players)
Hero bets $0.3, BB folds, UTG calls, Button raises to $1, Hero calls, UTG raises all-in $2.43, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: 6 ($8.59, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $8.59)
Hero bets $3, Button calls.

River: 3 ($14.59, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $8.59, Sidepot 1: $6)
Hero is all-in $4.27, Button calls.

Results:
Final pot: $23.13
Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
 
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Bear Bones
Old 05-10-2007, 06:38 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Fold that in the small blind all day.

check fold flop.
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Gritho
Old 05-10-2007, 08:31 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I agree. Unlikely there is no ace or king out, so you won't get them all to fold.
If the flop is cheap, you may pay for the turn.
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Pants_101
Old 05-10-2007, 08:59 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Ok well here is what I was thinking feel free to point out my errors. PF I have a poor hand and poor position but my opps are poor too (poorer I hope than me anyway ) On the flop I have a flush draw and the board may have given an opponent a hand they like so I bet not to make them fold but to start building the pot. When raised this is where I was unsure. I don't have the pot odds but the raise suggests I might have the implied odds assuming I'm not drawing dead to a higher flush draw. Also I don't know what the other guy is going to do but he is short so less of a worry. Still I'm not sure its a good call at all. However once shorty pushes and the button calls I think I pretty much have the odds anyway so of course I call again. On the turn I want to get it all in. I choose to try to do it in 2 stages although I feared another club on the river. Anyone just push the turn?

Those were my thoughts anyway. Is my play defensible?
Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
 
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Bear Bones
Old 05-11-2007, 02:41 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pants_101
Ok well here is what I was thinking feel free to point out my errors. PF I have a poor hand and poor position
Dude, no offense but, poor hand and poor position, that's the end of the story. FOLD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pants_101
but my opps are poor too (poorer I hope than me anyway ) On the flop I have a flush draw and the board may have given an opponent a hand they like so I bet not to make them fold but to start building the pot.When raised this is where I was unsure. I don't have the pot odds but the raise suggests I might have the implied odds assuming I'm not drawing dead to a higher flush draw.
You have a 7 high flush draw and no other outs. FOLD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pants_101
Also I don't know what the other guy is going to do but he is short so less of a worry. Still I'm not sure its a good call at all. However once shorty pushes and the button calls I think I pretty much have the odds anyway so of course I call again. On the turn I want to get it all in. I choose to try to do it in 2 stages although I feared another club on the river. Anyone just push the turn?

Those were my thoughts anyway. Is my play defensible?
You hit the flush. NH GG. But you will lose your bankroll playing these hands.
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Fnord
Old 05-11-2007, 05:33 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Pre-flop call is loose, but whateva... Playing the hand isn't out of the question for me, but I usually fold.

In a fairly loose post-flop game, this is an easy flop check to keep the pot small. You're unlikely to take it down on an action flop and you want money behind for when you hit.

After checking, it's an easy fold to a bet + raise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Pants_101
Old 05-11-2007, 09:23 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Right thanks guys, this was not a normal play by me and even though it paid off this time I wasn't at all sure about it. The thing is with opps who will stack off with a medium ace it's tempting to chase a lot of draws. AQ and AJ in this case.
Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
 
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Pelion
Old 05-11-2007, 11:32 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I probably call preflop if I think they'll pay off plenty with a top pair type hand.

BUT if they are the right sort of players to call preflop then they are the wrong sort of players to bet the flop. Wait until you make your hand and then bet it. Fold to the bet and raise.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

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Ash256
Old 05-11-2007, 02:07 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pants_101
The thing is with opps who will stack off with a medium ace it's tempting to chase a lot of draws.
Which means we don't need to bet out with 7 high.
Listen to my music
 
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Pants_101
Old 05-11-2007, 03:06 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Hmm yes good points. Assuming I check flop and there is a bet and a call what would you be prepared to call? I ask myself if I think I can win 5 times the bet I have to call if I hit, or not. Is this the way to think about it? Obviously I can never be certain of winning more if the flush comes in... The bigger the pot the more likely I can win more from them as they won't want to give it up...
Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
 
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Pelion
Old 05-11-2007, 03:45 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pants_101
Hmm yes good points. Assuming I check flop and there is a bet and a call what would you be prepared to call? I ask myself if I think I can win 5 times the bet I have to call if I hit, or not. Is this the way to think about it? Obviously I can never be certain of winning more if the flush comes in... The bigger the pot the more likely I can win more from them as they won't want to give it up...
Id call a potsize bet + call on that flop.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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Pants_101
Old 05-11-2007, 04:38 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I wonder if I can turn this into an idealised example to check if I understand some concepts correctly.

Lets get rid of UTG and just have me and the button. Top the button's stack up to $10 with .40c in the pot on the flop. Now the button loves his ace, he will bet or raise the flop and he will push the turn 100% of the time. Now the chance of my flush coming in the on the turn is about 4-1, is that correct?
If the button bets $2.50 and I call then 4 times I give up on the turn when he pushes and lose $10. 1 time I make my flush and win $10.40 for a profit. Just about

But what if he's not so dumb and will only push or call a push on the turn when the flush completes 50% of the time. Now if he bets $1.25 and I call then 4 times I lose for a total of $5, 1 time I hit my flush and he calls my push for $10.40 half the time so do I just halve my win to $5.20? For a profit of .20c overall?

What if his percentage chance of calling a push rises as the pot size goes up? Might it be worth betting or raising the flop to tie him to the pot? I have no clue how to calculate that. It may not even be a true assumption that often I don't know.

Anyway if my maths is wrong please tell me!
Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
 
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Stagemn
Old 05-17-2007, 09:53 PM #13 (permalink)  
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JUST FOLD THE 72 on the SB. I can see calling mabye a suited connector, but not 72s.
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