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$100nl C-R flop with Overcards + Gutshot

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spoonitnow

12-11-2007, 04:11 PM Post subject: $100nl C-R flop with Overcards + Gutshot

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Posts: 5,406

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($104.25)
UTG ($54)
MP1 ($123.45)
Hero ($99.50)
CO ($115.70)
Button ($93)
SB ($73)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K

, Q

.
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, Button calls $4, 2 folds.

Flop: ($9.50) 6

, T

, 9

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $8, Hero raises to $23

Villain is 1p0kerboy, a fairly solid tight multitabling 2+2 100nl/200nl (pro?) type of guy.

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spoonitnow

12-12-2007, 07:48 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

Bump. Is it that bad?

wufwugy

12-12-2007, 08:06 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 1,660

I think the only posters in this forum who should reply are Fnord, Renton, and DaNuts. I kinda have an opinion that's ever changing and I've done this type of thing before, but I really can't say what's best. There's so many factors here that I make my opinion sound right, yet be way wrong.

1. It's Pboy. You'll be playing a lot with him so you need to mix it up. You have outs so that's good, but you also may need to get really into it since he's likely good enough to know that you're possibly not good enough to take a weird line with a strong hand.

2. The board is super drawy, and he could easily have a nice draw here that he won't fold to anything other than a push or three barrels. Or he could have air, but I doubt that since he should know to check behind.

3. His pf calling range includes a lot of 66-TT. Gonna be real hard for you to get him off those. There's also gonna be some KQ QJ JT type stuff, and a handful of those hit the board. Also gonna be hard to get him off. Especially since nobody likes being craid and this provokes them to wanna take it further.

4. I really have little experience here and that's why I think you'll only get adequate responses from the more sound players. I check/fold. I'm OOP vs a good player where his range is widest. He wins. But if I was better I may not give up here. I just dunno.

Warpe

12-12-2007, 08:45 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,905

I doubt that you're playing a set this way with the flush draw out. You're also giving him decent odds to continue.

spoonitnow

12-12-2007, 10:16 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: 5,406

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

You have outs so that's good, but you also may need to get really into it since he's likely good enough to know that you're possibly not good enough to take a weird line with a strong hand.

Or he could have air, but I doubt that since he should know to check behind.

I'm OOP vs a good player where his range is widest. He wins. But if I was better I may not give up here. I just dunno.

The text in bold are sort of contradictory statements. If he thinks I won't check/raise him here with a strong hand, then he should be betting air.

I don't mean this personally, but these three parts of your reply have a tone that sounds like you're defeated before you even get started. I do respect 1p0kerboy more than I do a lot of the taggfish at 100nl FR, but I'm not going to check/fold to him (or anyone else) every time I miss a flop to him OOP.

wufwugy

12-12-2007, 11:21 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,660

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

The text in bold are sort of contradictory statements. If he thinks I won't check/raise him here with a strong hand, then he should be betting air.

Not quite. If he has air he's not gonna 3bet your crai even though you could have air. We're dealing with supposed likelyhoods. He knows you're not taking the same line with whatever hands every time. A lot of theory and practice held by individuals is somewhat contradictory. The nature of being incomplete.

Quote:

I don't mean this personally, but these three parts of your reply have a tone that sounds like you're defeated before you even get started. I do respect 1p0kerboy more than I do a lot of the taggfish at 100nl FR, but I'm not going to check/fold to him (or anyone else) every time I miss a flop to him OOP.

I also won't every time. I don't do much of anything 100% of the time.

Sometimes defeat comes early. This particular hand, when evaluating the playout of the entire hand, I think one street of betting is probably the worst decision. Pboy should be folding a very small percentage of his range to a cbet on this flop. I'm not comfortable with just doubling since he could have a lot of draws and be looking to raise them on the turn. I almost never triple air so I cannot comment there.

After Pboy calls your pf raise ip but before the flop, he is the favorite to win the hand. His range is just as tight, if not tighter, and he has position. Then the flop comes, a very tricky and hard to play flop with almost any hand. Giving up immediately is not bad, it may even be best.

I had this hand a while back vs supreme20, I have like QJs, I raise MP, he calls LP, flop is like 665, I check/fold like it was std, and I think that's the best play there. If anybody has the edge there it's him, and if anybody's gonna out play the other it's gonna be him. Positions switched and I'm the one who's got the edge and stuff.

Your hand is more difficult to play though because Pboys range is gonna be wider, but still beat you unimproved, and you have the added gutshot. Giving up early is not always defeatest. I'd find more value personally by putting Pboy in your spot more often, looking for him to try to outplay me yet making mistakes, and avoiding doing the same.

Check/folding sounds kinda bad since we have equity. My point is that if we do not do some type of betting/raising after the flop then it's best to check/fold, and I don't know what to do on the latter streets unimproved. I emphasize what we do on latter streets because I don't think Pboy will be folding much of his range to a cbet.

Obviously, you craid instead of cbet. I find this worse in some ways but better in some ways. Overall, the suspect line and fact that you're gonna hafta put even more money in than if you'd just cbet on latter streets makes me like it less, while not necessarily making your hand look much bigger. It actually could, though, since he could just get confused by the weirdness.

dsaxton

12-12-2007, 11:27 PM

#7 (permalink)

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This can't be better than simply betting.

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$100nl C-R flop with Overcards + Gutshot

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