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$100nl Bad place for cbet?

  
 
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spoonitnow
Old 12-08-2007, 10:13 PM     Post subject: $100nl Bad place for cbet? #1 (permalink)  
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 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 ($24.90)
Hero ($98.50)
CO ($78.85)
Button ($63.50)
SB ($97.50)
BB ($78.20)
UTG ($148)
UTG+1 ($159.20)
MP1 ($99.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 6, 6.
4 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, Button calls $4, 1 fold, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($12.50) A, J, 8 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero ...

BB is 17/3/7.6 and no stats on other villain. I've not been particularly out of line and have only been at the table for an orbit or two.

Is this a bad place for a cbet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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HiLo
Old 12-08-2007, 10:21 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I'm c-betting here.
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wufwugy
Old 12-08-2007, 10:56 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I'm not. Villians call with a ton of stuff, and we have to fold to any bet on turn/river. This may be a good spot for a double barrel, but I don't think so. We'd need to triple due to the fd, I think, but I don't like that since they will likely call down with an ace.
 
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daven
Old 12-08-2007, 11:05 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 bet $9
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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HiLo
Old 12-08-2007, 11:44 PM #5 (permalink)  
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[quote="wufwugy"]I'm not.quote]

Really? This pot is ours until proven otherwise! Major part of our range is Ace-big. Bet it and take the pot down. I'm not giving this pot up til I meet resistance - only then am i re-evaluating.
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Renton
Old 12-09-2007, 12:17 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 im not

they aren't bought in full, so they probably have teh A2o.

in all srsness, they are probably both donks, which means 1) that dramatically increases the likelihood that they have an ace, and 2) that dramatically increases the likelihood that they'll peel any piece of the flop.

generally speaking though, this isn't the worst spot to cbet though.
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WildBobAA
Old 12-09-2007, 12:20 AM #7 (permalink)  
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I'm check/folding
 
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checkraiseit
Old 12-09-2007, 01:44 AM #8 (permalink)  
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6 max - def C bet it.... OR if your image was tight, AND you've won the last few showdowns, then C bet the crap outta it.

Otherwise... not last to act, basically a bluff, no good draws...all comes down to how tight/loose/passive/aggressive the button is.

Tricky button, check fold. Wimpy button, C bet.

No info on button whatsoever? Probably 50% 50% either way. I vote C bet cuz I like to keep an aggressive image, and you have SOME fold equity.
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wufwugy
Old 12-09-2007, 05:24 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 [quote="HiLo"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
I'm not.quote]

Really? This pot is ours until proven otherwise! Major part of our range is Ace-big. Bet it and take the pot down. I'm not giving this pot up til I meet resistance - only then am i re-evaluating.
The purpose of cbetting with a poor hand is to get folds from better hands. The majority of this comes from getting nits to fold less than top pair and marginal draws. These villians are not those kind of nits.
 
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spoonitnow
Old 12-09-2007, 02:19 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 Assume the same situation (including the BB checking the flop), but the flop comes...

1. A 9 4

2. Q J 7

3. Q 8 4

...how does the spot change for each of these, if any?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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XTR1000
Old 12-09-2007, 04:01 PM #11 (permalink)  
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1. c/f for the reasons wuf and Renton mentioned, mostly b/c I spew 3b when no diamond hits

2. c/f, because Qx/Jx are a huge part of their ranges

3. bet/db with reads that they like to call flops with A-high or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred View Post
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
yo
 
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wufwugy
Old 12-10-2007, 05:02 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 You can get away with betting the third one. A problem with cbetting as much as we've learned to is that we're getting bluffed much more often than we used to. In the first two examples, we'll get bluffed by worse hands that continue beyond the flop from time to time, but the last example we won't most of the time.

The second hand is the worst to cbet, imo. More draws that can bluff us and more pairs that look good and beat us.
 
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Renton
Old 12-10-2007, 05:51 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 i would prob bet 2 and 3
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Chopper
Old 12-10-2007, 12:51 PM #14 (permalink)  
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so, our criteria to NOT cbet is a suited A on flop? otherwise, we fire?

i think its a no-brainer that #3 is a clear cbet. why not #2? sure, it hit their range, but it hit ours pretty hard, too. overpairs, sets, and AQ/AJ, from lp, QJs, KJs, are all in OUR range, too. ISF theorem states when a board hits our range harder than theirs, we bluff more. villains called pf. we are in the driver's seat, why are we so quick to let it go? i fire 2 barrels into this flop, especially if a str8 completes, or the board pairs, as scare cards. you guys may say, "thats exactly why you dont cbet it." i say, "thats exactly why you DO."

#1...meh. i may bet to protect my hand, but i dont know that its worth protecting. i may donk this one on occasion to see how much someone likes their hand, but i dont see a lot of raising donk leads, and i should.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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