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$1/2 NL Holdem Cash Game hand history.

  
 
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NixonFanClub
Old 04-12-2006, 05:07 AM     Post subject: $1/2 NL Holdem Cash Game hand history. #1 (permalink)  

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First of all, since this is my first post, I just wanted to introduce myself briefly. My name is Charles, long time poker player, pointed to this board by Rusty (Ephemorficism or however the heck you pronounce/spell it).

My apologies if I'm violating the syntax for posting the hands. Since this happened in a brick and mortar game, it's taken straight from my notes.

$1/2 NL hold'em. I have $200, other players have between $400 and $500.

Two loose, passive players call $2. A loose, aggressive player calls for $2. Two more players of unknown skill call $2.

I have AA on the button.

The player to my left has raised frequently from late position and the blinds five times in a row and is "on a rush". He CAN play well but is presently playing loose, gambly poker (IE open-raised to $20 and called all-in for $190 with 88 off a $2 blind).

Question #1> What percentage of the time will the player to my left need to raise to justify me limping on the button?

I limp. To my chagrin, SB limps, BB checks.

Flop comes: Js 9s 2s. I have the As in my hand.

Question #2> Is there any amonut of action that can get me off the hand preflop, given several of the players are loose?

As the hand played out, SB to my left (who I couldn't count on to raise preflop for me) comes out betting $10. First loose, passive caller makes it $25. Second loose passive caller calls. Loose, aggressive player makes it $75.

How would you rank these options?

A> Fold.
B> Call, with the hopes of enticing players in to see the turn, and the intention of calling any turn bet.
C> Call, with the hopes of dumping the hand if the board pairs on the turn.
D> Push all-in, as it is too likely you have the best hand and you have outs if you miss.

Actual hand result irrelevant, but this hand provided me with lots of food for thought. Comments?

Charles.
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Vinterriket
Old 04-12-2006, 05:32 AM #2 (permalink)  
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#1: What percentage of the time will he raise you if you raised? If this is high enough then I'd be more than happy to 3-bet/push. Typically though with that many limpers you really do not want a huge multiway pot with AA so a raise is always in order. However you are saying that the SB will do the raising for you. I'd say a limp here is only good if the SB raises 75%+ AND would rarely raise you if you had raised rather than limp.

#2: If a player bets, you toss out a good-sized raise, and they raise/push back I think you are beat and can fold easy enough. Being on the button here is quite useful.

In this hand you have an overpair and the nut flush draw but have crazy action in front. SB bets (typical based on your read), a loose-passive raises (hmm), another loose-passive calls (hmmmm), and then a LAgg raises (danger). I'd say you are quite likely up against a set and a flush here.

Board: Js 9s 2s
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 20.3765 % 20.38% 00.00% { AdAs }
Hand 2: 33.1118 % 33.11% 00.00% { JcJd }
Hand 3: 46.5116 % 46.51% 00.00% { KsQs }

Seeing as how the made flush is hurting your outs, and the set has redraws to the boat, your odds arent so good. I fold here. Has the table been an all-in fest with this much action occuring often? If so, then you may be able to weaken their range some and therefore increase your odds of winning, but it's still borderline.

Unless these people are madmen, I fold.

Also, welcome to FTR
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DonCoryon
Old 04-12-2006, 08:51 AM #3 (permalink)  

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Question 1:

100%. If you already have 5 or 6 people in the pot, Raise! Never limp from the button. The limp reraise play starts in Early Position and ends there. Limp (to reraise) from the button is never acceptable.
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NixonFanClub
Old 04-12-2006, 05:27 PM #4 (permalink)  

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Don,

At the risk of sounding snotty, it isn't "never" acceptable, since you yourself said that if the button has a 100% chance of raising that it's okay to limp Likewise, I'd say 99% is also high enough, &c &c. Myself, I had it at about 80% at the time I first thought about it, but there was one further thing which I need to consider: How big a raise will those two gamblers across the table call preflop with an implied odds hand?

In retrospect, I think a raise to even as high as 40 gets me both those gambling callers. Which is probably not so bad. I'll be coming out for 160 on most any if not any flop.

And Vinterr, I don't know if I want to raise if the player to my left will reraise, almost certainly driving out the action. I think I can do better than 200 to win 412 heads up. If the player to my left raises to 15-20 for me, he will get 5-6 callers, at which point I am either going to get 200 to win 520 heads up or 200 to win 720 against two players, both of which look a good means better.

However, as stated above, I think if I went back in time and raised to as much as 40 on the button, I still get two callers and they both make their big hands on the flop, not much is going to change in this particular hand itself.
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Renton
Old 04-12-2006, 05:48 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 limp-reraise too often takes down the pot because it announces your hand.

If you raise here, you have the added benefit of looking like you are trying to steal the pot with rags (its a play I use often with marginal holdings), which makes it a significant chance of a threebet, in which case you can flat call with position and make a ton of money on this hand.

Limping sucks. If this lagg in the SB is even a LITTLE smart, he isn't going to raise from the blinds with anything but a great hand (and the odds are he doesn't have a great hand). So even against an ultra lagg, you can't give yourself 80% here. You hafta raise.

As played on the flop, you can play this hand very aggressively even in a multiway pot. Someone MIGHT have flopped a flush or a set. No one flopped two pair, and you have 11 outs against a set and 9 outs and runner boat against a flush.
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SteveO
Old 04-12-2006, 08:46 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Always raise on button with a big hand with lots of limpers regardless of blinds' style. Crazy blind might think you are stealing and re-raise you with 88 again. You said you played quite a bit so you know you want to build pot early and face less opponents with AA. You have the gamble twins across the table who will oblige you and build the pot.

So raise it every time in that spot. Hell you can raise with air in that spot and try to pick up all the dead limp money even better when you got a good hand. You may also set up some steal opportunities later when you raise on button with AA. Next hour when you have all those limpers and you are cold decked raise with air and pick up the dead money.

Post flop is tough. Somebody almost certainly has you beat with that action. I think I either push or fold. If you call 75 you have half your chips committed anyway so getting away from it on the turn is a bad option IMO. Moving in is probably best with the nut draw. If you come over the top opponents have to give you credit for the flush and any set might fold even in remote circumstance the non-nut flush may conclude you have him smoked since you have that key As. So I guess my overall opinion is push over the top on flop. You may force better hand out and you still have a shot at the nuts.
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mcatdog
Old 04-12-2006, 08:55 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
limp-reraise too often takes down the pot because it announces your hand.
If the OP was first-to-act, I would agree with you, but if he's the button, I'm not so sure, because who would limp behind a bunch of other limpers with AA? If the Button limp-reraised here I would put him on something like 88 or 99 that was going to play for set value but changed his mind and made a play when the aggro-monkey in the SB raised for the 10th time in a row.
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Miffed22001
Old 04-12-2006, 10:28 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 raise button push flop would be my normal line

as played, call perhaps? Id have to say that the board pairing is death to your flush but then considering how much money is going in the pot here is a call and then calling *some* all ins not worth it. I think pot size may eventually demand an all in.
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