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Kaartkeizer
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10-21-2005, 09:49 AM
Post subject: Point Ranking System
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Posts: 16
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How will the points be calculated in the upcoming Gauntlet? Will it be like the Pokerstars one where you take the square root of the # of players divided by the square root of your position and then multiplied by 10? Or will you guys come up with your own point system?
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Staresy
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Following the Herd to 6-Max Land
Posts: 1,240
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http://www.powerplaystats.com/~ftr/g...stribution.php
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Kaartkeizer
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Posts: 16
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Staresy
http://www.powerplaystats.com/~ftr/gauntlet_point_distribution.php
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I don't really like this point system. If you can only play 12 games then you should get points for every game and not just when you place in the top. With the Pokerstars system: let's say 20 players, #1 gets 44,72 points and #20 gets only 10 points. Only 10 points but at least 10 points. That player has something to build on and will probably play other games too instead of just 4 or 5. If players get points for every game they are less likely to drop out and play the 12 games to take that beautiful trophy. 
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CrunchyNuts
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 436
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My offer stands - if anyone who actually has a say on what system we use wants to discuss and refine our system, I'm game for it.
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Kaartkeizer
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Posts: 16
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Using the Pokerstars point system, the top places are rewarded a lot more points than the rest but still everyone gets points. I took an example of a game of 19 players. This is what the points distribution would look like:
1. 43,59
2. 30,82
3. 25,17
4. 21,79
5. 19,49
6. 17,8
7. 16,48
8. 15,41
9. 14,53
10. 13,78
11. 13,14
12. 12,58
13. 12,09
14. 11,65
15. 11,25
16. 10,9
17. 10,57
18. 10,27
19. 10
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Tommydx
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 81
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Getting points just for turning up is gay. Unless you really struglle to get players.
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Eric
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: on my laptop
Posts: 1,782
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kaartkeizer
Only 10 points but at least 10 points. That player has something to build on and will probably play other games too instead of just 4 or 5. If players get points for every game they are less likely to drop out and play the 12 games to take that beautiful trophy. :)
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Interesting. I have noticed in the first 2 seasons that a lot of players drop out after a few games. It is probably due to a combination of things (freeroll hunters, point system, scheduling etc).
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Muxy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canadian LOLUH'S AND AMERICAN LOLUHS
Posts: 1,529
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Points = 10 * [sqrt(n)/sqrt(k)]* [1+log(b+0.25)]
http://www.pokerstars.com/tlb.xls
This is a great formula take out the * [1+log(b+0.25)] and it is superb
Points = 10 * [sqrt(n)/sqrt(k)]
n is the number of entrants
k is the place of finish (k=1 for the first-place finisher, and so on)
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RaiRaiGokuu
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 13
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tommydx
Getting points just for turning up is gay.
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The points you would get for just showing up (if you went out very early), would just be a consolation prize for donating your money. This would be "gay" if the games were freerolls, but with a buy-in I don't think anybody is going to join just to get a measly couple of points.
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The_Bankroll
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 370
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I agree. I think getting a few points just for showing up is a good idea, it'll help encourage more participation, and offer more benefit to people who will play at least 12 games
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Les_Worm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 1,697
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Should you be rewarded with points for a poor showing?....I don't think so...
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The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You
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EasyT
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eric
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kaartkeizer
Only 10 points but at least 10 points. That player has something to build on and will probably play other games too instead of just 4 or 5. If players get points for every game they are less likely to drop out and play the 12 games to take that beautiful trophy. |
Interesting. I have noticed in the first 2 seasons that a lot of players drop out after a few games. It is probably due to a combination of things (freeroll hunters, point system, scheduling etc). |
It works in reverse too! Les won the first freeroll for mega-points and a healthy lead. Did he have to defend his lead? NOT REALLY. Did he show up the next three weeks? NO. (Well, before he jumps down my throat, I don't know if he did or didn't show, but overall, he only played like 4 or 5 weeks.)
What we want to do is to ENCOURAGE PARTICIPATION. The point system ideally would be devised to make it tough to win unless you come MOST of the time. The point breakdown for Stars is almost too narrow. The winner should get a good lead. It's tough to get "just right".
I'm afraid that I'm not offering a suggestion. Just an opinion.
EasyT
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RaiRaiGokuu
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 13
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Les_Worm
Should you be rewarded with points for a poor showing?....I don't think so...
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Yes, some but not many. Otherwise, the winners will get such a lead that they can't be caught. We want everyone to have a chance, right?
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Muxy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canadian LOLUH'S AND AMERICAN LOLUHS
Posts: 1,529
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Les_Worm
Should you be rewarded with points for a poor showing?....I don't think so...
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yes.
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Good idea. Will definitely make sure that all the Gauntlets have plenty of players.
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realgenius
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 152
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I still hate Les for winning those freerolls.
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This is a true story. I'm not a paid actor. FTR does not guarantee any results. People can and do lose money when playing poker.
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ttanaka
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,184
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This is the point system we're currently using:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/Online-...tribution.html
The problem with giving everyone points is that we have to keep track of all those players...
I'm not opposed to the equation presented, but I'll leave it to Xianti to make the final decision, and I'll just support his conclusion.
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CrunchyNuts
My offer stands - if anyone who actually has a say on what system we use wants to discuss and refine our system, I'm game for it.
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What's your suggestion, Nuts?
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Les_Worm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 1,697
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RaiRaiGokuu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Les_Worm
Should you be rewarded with points for a poor showing?....I don't think so...
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Yes, some but not many. Otherwise, the winners will get such a lead that they can't be caught. We want everyone to have a chance, right? |
I want everyone that plays well to have a chance.
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The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You
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Les_Worm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 1,697
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Muxy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Les_Worm
Should you be rewarded with points for a poor showing?....I don't think so...
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yes. |
why?
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The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You
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RaiRaiGokuu
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Greenwood, IN
Posts: 13
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Les_Worm
I want everyone that plays well to have a chance.
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Agreed. But what if someone plays well except for one bad day? If the point system penalizes him/her too much for that one screwup and he can't recover from it, there's a problem. I really don't know how realistic that possibility is, but that's the point I'm trying to make.
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Kaartkeizer
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Posts: 16
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ttanaka
The problem with giving everyone points is that we have to keep track of all those players...
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So how many players will be playing the Gauntlet? Will it be like 200 or 40? If it's 200 then it will be a lot of work but if it is only 40 then I don't see the problem.
There will be no freerolls anymore and this will reduce the amount of players who will get points.
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Les_Worm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 1,697
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RaiRaiGokuu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Les_Worm
I want everyone that plays well to have a chance.
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Agreed. But what if someone plays well except for one bad day? If the point system penalizes him/her too much for that one screwup and he can't recover from it, there's a problem. I really don't know how realistic that possibility is, but that's the point I'm trying to make. |
You don't get penalized for a poor showing, in that you don't get points taken away, you just aren't rewarded with points you don't deserve.
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The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You
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Kaartkeizer
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Posts: 16
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Les_Worm
You don't get penalized for a poor showing, in that you don't get points taken away, you just aren't rewarded with points you don't deserve.
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I understand your point of view Les_Worm, where you want to make the Gauntlet a survival of the fittest. That's a good point of view, where you have to do good or not get anything.
But if you were an administrator and wanted to have many players every tournament, which point ranking system would you choose??
Players dropping out, not playing 12 games, not many entrants per tournament or if there are not many players in the whole Gauntlet then it takes something away from the Gauntlet. If you win that trophy with many players competing then you win that trophy with a lot of pride.
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realgenius
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 152
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I actually thought the point system was pretty decent, the only thing that threw things off were the free rolls, thus an irregular amount of points. And really who would have thought any one person would win 2 of them. I say leave it like it is. Because it was always important to finish "In the Points" as well as "In the Money".
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This is a true story. I'm not a paid actor. FTR does not guarantee any results. People can and do lose money when playing poker.
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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We're going to leave it as-is for this season, but CrunchyNuts (another mathemagician) is devising another system that I may consider for next season. The lack of the freerolls in the Gauntlet should weigh all the games more evenly.
The criteria I'm asking of CrunchyNuts:
It should encourage consistent participation evenly throughout the entire season, but still reward the best-performing players the most.
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Staple Gun
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Gamblers Anonymous
Posts: 812
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I don't think that more people will play solely because every place gets points.
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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Yeah! Let's give points to everyone even if they're horrible. We can even give everyone a consolation (ie. participation) prize like a nifty ribbon just like they did in grade school to all the kids that didn't finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd.
All this pansy talk is making DNuts sick to the stomach. If you want to run the FTR Gaunlet like the Special Olympics where everyone gets something just for showing up then go for it, but in the spirit of competition, the idea sucks ass. Personally, I wouldn't want to call myself Gaunlet Champion if I won it on such a shitty system.
The idea about using the PokerStars formula isn't bad, but you forgot to mention one important detail about their system... Points are only awarded to the TOP 15% of finishers, not everyone.
If you'll excuse me, I'm about to go transfer money to all the people I've taken money from tonight. They more than likely sucked and deserved to walk away with nothing, but it's the feel-good thing to do.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,602
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dasandinyovagina?
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