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End of an Era

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LeFou

11-18-2004, 04:26 AM Post subject: End of an Era

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Here's the question: I can't realistically bet much more with midpair, but to take away the drawing odds I have to bet more... what a pickle. Any thoughts?

Wait a minute... i took another look and this was a F***ing gutshot. wtf, michael?

*********** # 142 **************
PokerStars Game #868700933: Tournament #3055812, Hold'em No Limit -
Level VII (100/200) - 2004/11/17 - 23:43:06 (ET)
Table '3055812 2' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 2: FTRRules (2550 in chips)
Seat 3: HeavyP22 (2945 in chips)
Seat 4: Dejection08 (2420 in chips)
Seat 5: NuWere (4925 in chips)
Seat 6: NikkiTenny (4045 in chips)
Seat 7: TylerK (8345 in chips)
Seat 8: michael1123 (5075 in chips)
Seat 9: MarkDMoney (2695 in chips)
FTRRules: posts the ante 25
HeavyP22: posts the ante 25
Dejection08: posts the ante 25
NuWere: posts the ante 25
NikkiTenny: posts the ante 25
TylerK: posts the ante 25
michael1123: posts the ante 25
MarkDMoney: posts the ante 25
TylerK: posts small blind 100
michael1123: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NuWere [7h Td]
MarkDMoney: folds
FTRRules: folds
HeavyP22: folds
Dejection08: folds
NuWere: raises 200 to 400
NikkiTenny: folds
TylerK: folds
michael1123: calls 200
*** FLOP *** [Qc 2c Ts]
michael1123: checks
NuWere: bets 400
michael1123: calls 400
*** TURN *** [Qc 2c Ts] [9d]
michael1123: checks
NuWere: bets 400
michael1123: raises 800 to 1200
NuWere: calls 800
*** RIVER *** [Qc 2c Ts 9d] [4d]
michael1123: bets 2500
NuWere: calls 2500
*** SHOW DOWN ***
michael1123: shows [Jc 8h] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
NuWere: mucks hand
michael1123 collected 9300 from pot
michael1123 said, "hehe, may as well bet it all ther"
NuWere said, "nice"
michael1123 said, "there*"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9300 | Rake 0
Board [Qc 2c Ts 9d 4d]
Seat 2: FTRRules folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: HeavyP22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Dejection08 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: NuWere mucked [7h Td] - a pair of Tens
Seat 6: NikkiTenny (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: TylerK (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: michael1123 (big blind) showed [Jc 8h] and won (9300) with a
straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 9: MarkDMoney folded before Flop (didn't bet)

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Corey

11-18-2004, 04:31 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Posts: 1,349

IT was fun being my first. Lost to a higher kicker. Got 8th I think.

Had fun

Corey

|~|ypermegachi

11-18-2004, 04:46 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

i realize this was a blind steal gone bad, but shouldn't you blind steal with at least a better hand than T7o? anyways, now obviously michael1123 didn't have the pot odds to draw for the gutshot. but sometimes you have to take risks, and just another 400 more and he has the implied odds of taking your entire stack, especially if you had a high pocket pair or hit a set or 2 pair. but if you were serious about making people think twice about calling, i like to do pot sized bets. a little more risk because you invest more, but chances are greater they will fold.

i don't mind the flop bet too much, but when michael calls it you know you're behind. straight and flush draws are out.

now my question for you is why did you call the turn raise? if mike has a queen he beats you, any pocket pair >= tens beats you. there were a lot of hands that beat you, or have a good chance drawing to beat you on the river.

michael1123

11-18-2004, 04:56 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Rochester Hills, MI

Posts: 1,720

Quote:

Wait a minute... i took another look and this was a F***ing gutshot. wtf, michael?

Hehe. This is why you shouldn't underbet the way you do. This is a 1300 pot when I had to decide whether to call the 400 or not. Yes, that's only 31% pot odds and I have a 16% chance of hitting the nuts, but implied odds cover that difference easily. Plus if I miss, I figure I may spot a good opportunity to bluff you out if you showed weakness ... although seeing this hand I guess I didn't.

Turns out my 3 outs for the J was good too, but I wasn't counting on that. The small flop bet which could easily be a complete bluff did factor in though, with the stealing possibility.

Quote:

Here's the question: I can't realistically bet much more with midpair, but to take away the drawing odds I have to bet more... what a pickle. Any thoughts?

Ok, if you want some real advice, here it is:

Don't play T7o. If you have trouble playing mid pairs, there's no way you should consider playing this, as its probably the best you can expect to hit.

Raise more preflop, especially when you're playing with crap. This minraise begs the BB (me in this case) to call with anything, and you shouldn't want a call.

If you're going to play this hand, you have to also bet more at the flop. With a crap hand like this and a rather big flop you shouldn't expect to be good. If you're going to bet a better hand out of the flop (or a lesser one that can outdraw you like mine) you have to bet more.

What are you putting me on on the turn? Rather weak call on the raise here unless you think I'm almost completely bluffing, in which case it would be better to raise.

The river is the worst though. Maybe I'd think you were stealing by the weakness you showed by betting the flop and turn weakly, and try to steal it back. But at the river I've already shown you strength on the turn and now you're putting almost all your chips in with 2nd pair and no kicker, and I can't be expecting you to fold after calling on the turn so there's no reason to think I have worse.

You can blame my flop call if you want, but this really wasn't a well played hand by you at all. I know you like to "mix it up", but I think you could do better with better preflop hand selection and betting more when you do bet. Your minbetting and raising can throw people off, but it also begs for you to be outdrawn and makes stealing less likely.

ttanaka

11-18-2004, 04:58 AM

#5 (permalink)

Administrator
Administrator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Posts: 1,184

What? LeFou didn't win again?!?

Sorry LeFou/Nuwere, but I was quietly celebrating Michael1123's win on that one. Nothing personal, but someone else has got to have a shot at that title... like me!

LeFou

11-18-2004, 01:37 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael1123

Don't play T7o. If you have trouble playing mid pairs, there's no way you should consider playing this, as its probably the best you can expect to hit.

You're forgetting the critical point that they were BOTH red!

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael1123

This minraise begs the BB (me in this case) to call with anything, and you shouldn't want a call....

What are you putting me on on the turn? Rather weak call on the raise here unless you think I'm almost completely bluffing, in which case it would be better to raise.

I've got you on a busted/busting flush, but one with potential. Maybe a Jc. I do not think for one second you've got a queen.

My finish wasn't good here, but yes i figured it was attempted re-steal because you thought (rightly) that my hand wasn't great but thought (wrongly) that I also completely busted.

cupandhandle

11-19-2004, 04:50 AM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 26

Send a message via Yahoo to cupandhandle

LeFou,

I have to admit, I was routing(sp?) for the other guys. Hehe.

cup

11-19-2004, 03:58 PM

#8 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by cupandhandle

routing(sp?)

*rooting*

Oh and congrats everyone for not letting LeFou win! Hehe only joking LeFou.

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