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An apology and a question

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MrSlippery

10-06-2004, 10:12 PM Post subject: An apology and a question

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: A warm, dark place.

Posts: 34

Before I show this, let me say that this is very embarrassing and one of the two big mistakes I make every tournament and am trying to eliminate.

Also, I need to apologize to Cuthbertt (aka drmcboy) for being retarded.

Sorry man.

PokerStars Game #738168485: Tournament #2787283, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2004/10/02 - 15:50:22 (ET)
Table '2787283 3' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: cuthbertt (3345 in chips)
Seat 2: michael1123 (2530 in chips)
Seat 3: RD Olivaw (1155 in chips)
Seat 5: KDawg0002 (3345 in chips)
Seat 6: rocker52 (2000 in chips)
Seat 7: Mr Colby (475 in chips)
Seat 8: nkperson (1545 in chips)
Seat 9: Humphrind (2920 in chips)
cuthbertt: posts small blind 50
michael1123: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to KDawg0002 [Ks Jc]
RD Olivaw said, "

"
michael1123 said, "I guess he smiles when he has ****"
RD Olivaw said, "I was tempted"
RD Olivaw: folds
KDawg0002: raises 200 to 300
mike4066 [observer] said, "RD is looking off to the side, he's acting weak fold."
rocker52: folds
Mr Colby: folds
nkperson: folds
Humphrind: folds
cuthbertt: raises 3045 to 3345 and is all-in
michael1123: folds
KDawg0002: calls 3045 and is all-in
michael1123 said, "fake tilt! definitely a monster"
cuthbertt said, "guess im on tilt"
KDawg0002 said, "oo[s"
RD Olivaw said, "oohh"
*** FLOP *** [Kc 4h Jd]
nkperson said, "ouch"
mike4066 [observer] said, "whoooao"
pkrfanatic01 [observer] said, "ohhh"
nkperson said, "oh!"
mike4066 [observer] said, "ohhh"
michael1123 said, "oh my god"
Legendash [observer] said, "no way!"
hypermegachi [observer] said, "O H"
*** TURN *** [Kc 4h Jd] [Ts]
hypermegachi [observer] said, "M A H"
*** RIVER *** [Kc 4h Jd Ts] [Kd]
hypermegachi [observer] said, "G A W D"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
cuthbertt: shows [Ah As] (two pair, Aces and Kings)
KDawg0002: shows [Ks Jc] (a full house, Kings full of Jacks)
RD Olivaw said, "ahhhh"
mike4066 [observer] said, "ouhcha"
rocker52 said, "nh"
KDawg0002 collected 6790 from pot
KDawg0002 said, "sorry man"
ttanaka [observer] said, "wow!!"
pkrfanatic01 [observer] said, "OUCH"
RD Olivaw said, "nice"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6790 | Rake 0
Board [Kc 4h Jd Ts Kd]
Seat 1: cuthbertt (small blind) showed [Ah As] and lost with two pair, Aces and Kings
Seat 2: michael1123 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: RD Olivaw folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: KDawg0002 showed [Ks Jc] and won (6790) with a full house, Kings full of Jacks
Seat 6: rocker52 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Mr Colby folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: nkperson folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Humphrind (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Now for the question:

If you raise AI on this hand do you want a retard like me to call or fold? Are you trying to steal the raise and the blinds or double up? Clearly, if I was thinking straight I would have laid this down very quickly, but if I folded would he have gotten the most out of this monster, if I hadn't gotten lucky as hell?

Certainly, you're the big favorite here, but do you want to risk all of your chips on this hand in a tournament? Or do you re-raise and try to get the most out of it post-flop if you get called?

I'm asking because, basically, I called this on a reflex. My hand was too close to the mouse again, and it seems to be a lot faster than my brain. Something else I've been working on.

In a ring game I think this is probably a no-brainer, but I don't play NL rings much.

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melinda27

10-06-2004, 11:56 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 165

me, i want you to call every time.

michael1123

10-07-2004, 01:02 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Rochester Hills, MI

Posts: 1,720

Definitely want a call with aces. He was pretending to be on tilt to try and egg you into calling, hoping you had a strong hand. Turns out you didn't have a strong hand, but he still wanted you to call.

Even if you were sure he was on tilt, it was still an extremely weak call. A2 is the favorite over you, and you weren't even short stacked. Honestly, if someone raised 3x BB in front of you, I'd fold that hand every time. Calling an all in with it is downright ludicrious.

MrSlippery

10-07-2004, 03:08 AM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: A warm, dark place.

Posts: 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael1123

Even if you were sure he was on tilt, it was still an extremely weak call. A2 is the favorite over you, and you weren't even short stacked. Honestly, if someone raised 3x BB in front of you, I'd fold that hand every time. Calling an all in with it is downright ludicrious.

Listen, my question isn't about my play. It was wrong. You told me right when I did it. I've said it more than once. I don't need you to tell me that again. It is very clear.

My question about the strategic value of going AI with AA in a tourney. Going AI in a ring game in this situation is an easy play, and you want to get called every time. What I'm wondering is whether the chance of getting called and busted out of a tourney makes it better to re-raise hard and see the flop with the rockets, instead of letting me and the rest of the inferior players bust someone out with a bad play.

michael1123

10-07-2004, 06:45 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Rochester Hills, MI

Posts: 1,720

And as I said, he wants the call with the AA. What good would raising but still seeing a flop do in this situation do? He doesn't know you have KJ. Is he supposed to fold when you bet then? You're actually more likely to have your AA busted if you let them see the flop anyway. There they can hit a set or two pair or even just a single pair that can turn into two pair. You're not expecting your hand to improve when you have AA, so you want the most chips in the pot as possible preflop.

I'm not saying you should go all in preflop every time with aces, but if you think they'll call it, you definitely should. Basically, with AA and a raise in front of you, you're looking to raise as much as you think they'll call, whether that is an all in or just 3x their bet or less. The hands that typically call big reraises (high pocket pairs and strong aces) are so dominated by AA that you shouldn't be worried about putting too much in preflop. You should be worried about scaring them off more than anything.

drmcboy

10-10-2004, 02:27 AM

#6 (permalink)

DrButtInski
Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 9,602

HI al;l - sorry I missed this, been busy at work.

Anyway, I wanted the call, obviously. If you canget all the money in pre flop with AA, I think you have to do it. You need to double up a couple times to win, what better chance that pre flop with AA?

Normally I would have never made this play but with the hand before my gut said you'd call since you must have had some sort of hand to raise UTG

10-10-2004, 06:21 PM Post subject: Re: An apology and a question

#7 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

mike4066 [observer] said, "whoooao"
pkrfanatic01 [observer] said, "ohhh"
nkperson said, "oh!"
mike4066 [observer] said, "ohhh"
michael1123 said, "oh my god"
hypermegachi [observer] said, "O H"

Isn't it amazing how huge the vocabulary of us FTR users is.

Oooooh!

mike4066

10-10-2004, 06:22 PM Post subject: Re: An apology and a question

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2003

Posts: 1,943

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwarfman1990

Quote:

mike4066 [observer] said, "whoooao"
pkrfanatic01 [observer] said, "ohhh"
nkperson said, "oh!"
mike4066 [observer] said, "ohhh"
michael1123 said, "oh my god"
hypermegachi [observer] said, "O H"

Isn't it amazing how huge the vocabulary of us FTR users is.

Oooooh!

HAHAHA

pokerfanatic

10-11-2004, 04:09 AM Post subject: Re: An apology and a question

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwarfman1990

Quote:

mike4066 [observer] said, "whoooao"
pkrfanatic01 [observer] said, "ohhh"
nkperson said, "oh!"
mike4066 [observer] said, "ohhh"
michael1123 said, "oh my god"
hypermegachi [observer] said, "O H"

Isn't it amazing how huge the vocabulary of us FTR users is.

Oooooh!

Dat's funny right there...

“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord

fishstick

10-12-2004, 12:24 AM Post subject: Re: An apology and a question

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posts: 1,405

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwarfman1990

Quote:

mike4066 [observer] said, "whoooao"
pkrfanatic01 [observer] said, "ohhh"
nkperson said, "oh!"
mike4066 [observer] said, "ohhh"
michael1123 said, "oh my god"
hypermegachi [observer] said, "O H"

Isn't it amazing how huge the vocabulary of us FTR users is.

Oooooh!

from the man that goes on "holibobs!"

i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...

10-16-2004, 07:36 PM Post subject: Re: An apology and a question

#11 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwarfman1990

Quote:

mike4066 [observer] said, "whoooao"
pkrfanatic01 [observer] said, "ohhh"
nkperson said, "oh!"
mike4066 [observer] said, "ohhh"
michael1123 said, "oh my god"
hypermegachi [observer] said, "O H"

Isn't it amazing how huge the vocabulary of us FTR users is.

Oooooh!

from the man that goes on "holibobs!"

That's it, I'm writing a letter the the Oxford Dictionary people and I am asking if 'holibob' can be a word. BECAUSE IT IS!

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