Zombie thread

[d0zer]

-zombie kittens would be F dangerous
-zombie mice/rats? <shudder>
-zombie birds? GTFO
-zombie baby seals
-zombie ostriches would be funny

[wufwugy]

ya, this is why I've always enjoyed zombie fiction that occupies the hours/days/weeks(at most) after the epidemic. Obv it is all fiction, but skeleton warriors require much more suspension of disbelief than people infected by a virus that essentially makes them "undead" and have a craving for brains. Of course WWZ and TWD zombies aren't magically assembled skeleton archers, but the disregard for biology makes them further along on the spectrum then say, zombies from 28 days (who, iirc, aren't actually dead, but just infected with a virus that causes them to rot away and crave brains).


Furthermore, TWD has made me realize how much more I enjoy fast, 28 days type zombies when compared to the traditional slow shuffling lot that are present in older fiction and TWD.

28 Days was just a rage virus. They didn't even rot or crave brains, just wanted to kill everything. Those films were far and away the best depiction of zombie-like material on screen. The next best is I Am Legend despite its many flaws.

The lumbering, rotting zombie needs to be replaced by something more sophisticated (but not necessarily more believable IMO, just more conducive to consistent storytelling)

[boost]

28 Days was just a rage virus. They didn't even rot or crave brains, just wanted to kill everything. Those films were far and away the best depiction of zombie-like material on screen. The next best is I Am Legend despite its many flaws.

The lumbering, rotting zombie needs to be replaced by something more sophisticated (but not necessarily more believable IMO, just more conducive to consistent storytelling)

Ya, 28 days ftw. I am Legend.. idk..

[wufwugy]

Ya, 28 days ftw. I am Legend.. idk..

The thing that makes I Am Legend worth mentioning is that it had a couple strong elements that are not usually in the genre. An example: contrast the sense of dread between the TWD cast and Will Smith when they went places the monsters were supposed to be found. TWD walking over the "dead" bodies in the prison was kinda just "yeah whatever", but Smith going inside the building to rescue his dog or getting stuck in the noose was "end of the world" for him.

I Am Legend had potential to be amazing if it had been handled by somebody like James Cameron.

[boost]

Ya, I guess I just felt how shuffling zombie fans felt about the new wave of fast zombies brought on by movies like 28 days. It just felt too far from zombies, a weird sort of zombie vampire hybrid. And I'm really not a fan of boss zombies... it just goes against the whole point of the genre.

That being said, I am Legend was a solid movie. I'd watch it again.

[wufwugy]

IIRC the book I Am Legend was based on was vampires and the ending and theme was much better.

[BennyLaRue]

IIRC the book I Am Legend was based on was vampires and the ending and theme was much better.

The movie uses vampires as well. No zombies.

[wufwugy]

You're right, but Hollywood has yet to figure out that all post-apoc humanoids are not the same

[rpm]

You're right, but Hollywood has yet to figure out that all post-apoc humanoids are not the same

so which ones aren't imaginary?

[rong]

zombies walking across the bottom of a lake or something needs to be done, but they wouldn't get far at all when it comes to rivers and the ocean. depending on their mentality, a zombie apocalypse could actually see a ton of them get stuck in the ocean under pressure or obstacles or currents or eaten by sharks

Zombie sharks, fuck yeah!

[rong]

Also, toward the end of season 1 they found the army barracks or similar, I don't see zombies taking out a well armed well trained well organised platoon of soldiers. Just doesn't stack up imo. Maybe after a good few months when ammo is running out.

[boost]

Also, toward the end of season 1 they found the army barracks or similar, I don't see zombies taking out a well armed well trained well organised platoon of soldiers. Just doesn't stack up imo. Maybe after a good few months when ammo is running out.

Well the problem with zombies is that they are constantly infiltrating your ranks, esp if everyone becomes one when they die.

Sleeping around old people would be a serious risk.

[wufwugy]

TBH I think the latest episode is the best episode of the entire show outside of the series premiere. It's becoming rather clear that the staff acknowledges a lot of problems from season two - perhaps due to listening to protests and ridicule from viewers like on 2p2 - and they're trying to fix them. For example, Lori saying she knows she's a "shitty wife" is totally the kind of thing the writers would put in there as an "oops our bad." They have many other improvements like giving every character enough airtime to justify being members of the cast, a lot more zombies and a moving plotline, tighter interactions between the characters, namely the three tough guys (the cop, the hick, and the black guy), and giving the black guy non-insignificant lines.

Also, some of the deleted scenes are a bit better than the show. This suggests there are some problems in translating to a final product. TWD could actually be one of those shows that eventually figures out how to be good

[d0zer]

my f'n coworker said he didn't like the cop anymore cuz he locked the black guy that ran, outside with the zombies. I rolled my eyes.

[boost]

I can kinda understand that, I mean, the show has some decent themes going on, but it really struggles to convey them. So, like, it's not really clear how we should feel about Rick locking the guy out. And this is a lot different than a show that is divisive among audience members on purpose.

[wufwugy]

my f'n coworker said he didn't like the cop anymore cuz he locked the black guy that ran, outside with the zombies. I rolled my eyes.

That scene, but more importantly when he scimitar'd the ese, shows a positive authorial development. If this was season two they would have used lots of face shots and characters arguing about dumb things, but in this episode the character took action, thus demonstrating development instead of just trying to contrive it

I was pleasantly surprised at that and at what I found rather hilarious when the prisoners went gang style on the first group of zombies. This show really does need some comic relief like that.

[wufwugy]

I can't believe I like this show now. I think it has something to do with Rick killing that guy like that as the very first action of consequence in the entire show. Think about it, that was the one and only time anybody did something intentional while being controversial yet reasonable and developing a character. Everything else thus far has been stuff like farm girl liking asian guy for god knows why, doctor dad wanting to cure zombie sickness for god knows why, kid staring at deer for god knows why, shane killing fat guy for god knows why, shane trying to rape lori for god knows why, rick keeping the disease a secret for god knows why....

[d0zer]

I was pleasantly surprised at that and at what I found rather hilarious when the prisoners went gang style on the first group of zombies. This show really does need some comic relief like that.

"Guys, we JUST went over this like 5 minutes ago. The fucking head. Go for the fucking head."

[wufwugy]

I can kinda understand that, I mean, the show has some decent themes going on, but it really struggles to convey them. So, like, it's not really clear how we should feel about Rick locking the guy out. And this is a lot different than a show that is divisive among audience members on purpose.

Is the lockout really that ambiguous? The guy chose his side, and it was with the prisoner Rick just sliced open. In the zombie apocalypse, you keep your friends close and your enemies dead. It's really that simple and I hope the writers plan on continuing down this path

[boost]

Well, I think it is... the guy was definitely sympathetic... he was with the prisoners, so his reaction is to protect his own, but he pulled back, and then only went to strike again when Rick turned to him with the Machete. He wasn't clearly a bad person, he was just stuck in a really shitty situation.

[wufwugy]

Didn't he take a swing at Rick before Rick overtly threatened him? Rick's reactions to him do not make sense given his propensity for sparing the others, so if Rick was looking to blast the runner in sequence after carving the main villain, it would probably be a directorial mistake.

I just didn't see it as a problem. After the guy swings at him and runs (pretty sure he swung at him, but not watching again to confirm), he becomes somebody untrusted. What I felt was the silliest was Rick actually chasing him due to the fact that the editing didn't make it clear that Rick knew they had completely cleared out the hallways

[boost]

Well, I mean, the guy is in the prisoner group, and Rick just attacked their defacto leader. I guess the guy kinda flinched at Rick, but didn't commit to a swing, then Rick kicked him before he could think about swinging again.

[Stacks]

I don't really like how the prisoners and the group immediately jumped to hating each other. I mean I get that there will be some trust issues, and that's increased given they were prisoners. But in such a situation it seems wildly beneficial to increase your numbers if at all possible. Especially if it comes in the form of tough able bodied individuals that can help secure and maintain the prison. But right off the bat the group made it clear they just wanted food, and then for the prisoners to leave them alone.

[boost]

how is it that The Day (The Day - Rotten Tomatoes) gets trashed by critics, but TWD is a blockbuster hit? The Day has a lot of things to nit about, and it certainly isn't 28 days later, but it is reminiscent of a good 80's B movie. Sure, some(all) of the dialog is awful, but the premise is simple, they stick to it, and there is a lot of gratuitous violence to tie it all together. The Day is far from a good movie, but TWD has its own special peculiar concoction of bad.

[KoRnholio]

Didn't he take a swing at Rick before Rick overtly threatened him? Rick's reactions to him do not make sense given his propensity for sparing the others, so if Rick was looking to blast the runner in sequence after carving the main villain, it would probably be a directorial mistake.

I just didn't see it as a problem. After the guy swings at him and runs (pretty sure he swung at him, but not watching again to confirm), he becomes somebody untrusted.

I remember it as:
Strike 1 - Jail leader guy looks psycho as fuck killing his buddy
Strike 2 - Dangerous swing with his weapon nearly hits Rick in the head during battle, probably accidental but maybe not
Strike 3 - He purposely pushes a zombie onto Rick

Then after they had the stare down and I think Rick just decided to off him before thinking too long and second guessing himself against this psycho.

All in all, a promising looking season so far. Less feeling talk and more hack 'n slash survival.

What I felt was the silliest was Rick actually chasing him due to the fact that the editing didn't make it clear that Rick knew they had completely cleared out the hallways

Yeah, that was kind of a goofy little scene.

[wufwugy]

I'm honestly just so glad that Rick carved that guy open when he did. Cinematographically, I would have liked to have done it a little differently, but that's only a nitpick, and the real good thing about it is the storytelling, and they did that pretty much perfectly. They NEEDED Rick to make that kind of decision as soon as it became clear the guy was okay with getting Rick killed (pushing him into the zombie)

I was afraid it was just gonna be more talking and rationalizing and not doing anything. But instead they cut the guy open exactly how he should have been. Finally something of meaning in the story

[Penneywize]

The lumbering, rotting zombie needs to be replaced by something more sophisticated (but not necessarily more believable IMO, just more conducive to consistent storytelling)

Meh I just watched Land of the Dead on a whim (can't recommend) and, don't know if you saw that one but the zombs in it were sort of evolving / becoming more intelligent, using tools and shit. It didn't do much for me, in fact it all came across as somewhat comical.

The opening scene of the movie has a sort of TWD-ish town sequence where zombies go about doing things they used to know how to do, and there's this fucking band of zombies (literally, as in a musical band) trying to play their instruments. Come the fuck on.

That aside, if we accept that making zombies more intelligent is not the way to go, and making zombies stronger and faster isn't interesting enough, then what's the plan? And how can it be pulled off without zombies not being zombies anymore

It seems to me that good storytelling based on human-driven plot lines are the only real way to go. Spicing up zombies won't have any really lasting appeal, there's really just nowhere to go with it. I suppose this is the route TWD has taken, although the writers probably haven't pulled it off as well as it can be done. The thing to bear in mind here is that zombies don't make good villains, they're not antagonists to the characters in the story. They're more like the environment, exerting outside pressure on the characters, perhaps driving the story forward, but not affecting relationships between the characters (unless you count killing someone off as affecting relationships between characters...).

[wufwugy]

Excellent point about them being poor antagonists and just environmental. I didn't mean that their sophistication should be about intelligence or technology, but that what they are should be more thought through. 28 Days did this just fine, but it also altered a lot of what they do with the story. For example, the people with rage virus still had to consume stuff to stay alive, so after a good month of no food, they were all dead. The TWD zombie is kinda just a perpetual motion machine, and I feel like there has to be something more unique than that.

It's a very tough idea to tackle because part of what allows for a good story is the notion of perpetual motion zombies. I guess my main problems with the TWD zombies are (1) they're not aggressive, (2) they're super pussies that can never kill somebody who doesn't want to be killed. They only appear in flash hordes that do nothing or suddenly awaken and bite somebody. But every single time a moderately main character fights back, he doesn't come close to getting bitten

At the least, I think the zombies need to be scary. They should be so aggressive that when they see you they go crazy and when there's a horde, it's a doomsday scenario. Pretty much the way 28 Days did it

[boost]

Remember in 28 days, when they are in the house and the black chick's friend gets scratched or bit? He pleads for like a second, but he knows whats coming, and she shows no mercy. That scene was so crazy powerful. TWD has had, what, nearly a dozen or so times to pull this off, but every time it's like "well, hey, guys, having a bitten person around is really dangerous, but we should really sit down and have a round table discussion about our feelings on the issue. Carl, would you like to start the dialog?"

[wufwugy]

Ep is definitely better than any from last season, but they're hinting at wanting to sit around and talk about stuff again.

[Penneywize]

Ep is definitely better than any from last season, but they're hinting at wanting to sit around and talk about stuff again.

Meh this woodbury shit comes from out of left field. And of course the fucking governor is "unexpectedly" evil / fucked up in the head, despite EVERYTHING else looking pretty mellow. Apparently it's relatively easy to keep those 'in the know' quiet about all that shit that goes down, like gunning down 10-15 soldiers.

Also, wuf - you might be able to help me here - but I could have sworn I saw the guy from "Lie to me" (the british dude) in the helicopter at the beginning of the episode. I was streaming so the video was pretty low quality though. Is this possible? If it's him, then it's obviously a cameo right, because apparently everyone in the chopper died other than the pilot.

Of course I might just be on my 'oh shit that person is a legit actor, they can't be instadead' kick like I was in season 2 of Game of Thrones when I saw the girl from Boogie Nights in the bazaar/whatever the fuck that was in Qarth.

[wufwugy]

I haven't seen lie to me. probably not him tho as yes everybody in the chopper is dead

[boost]

Penney, I thought the exact same thing, except I've never seen Lie to Me, so I thought "wait, what the fuck, is that Mr. Orange?"

[bigred]

Penney, I thought the exact same thing, except I've never seen Lie to Me, so I thought "wait, what the fuck, is that Mr. Orange?"

Thought so too but I think it was just a look alike.

[Penneywize]

Hahaha I never realized the guy from Lie To Me was Mr. Orange from Reservoir Dogs. Dayum.

Anyway if all of us noticed that then there's a pretty good chance it's actually him, maybe he just wanted to do a cameo in TWD. He's uncredited as far as I can tell but maybe he just did it for shits and giggles. It's not like he has his own show anymore (canceled last year I believe).

Or it's just someone who bears an uncanny resemblance to him.

[BennyLaRue]

Wasn't him, 100%.

[wufwugy]

Wasn't him, 100%.

Clearly a Danish Asian

[BennyLaRue]

Did you see him call anybody Hunny Bunny? No, you didn't. So it wasn't him.

[BennyLaRue]

Carl is forgiven.

[boost]

what? Kharl has no shot at redemption. Unless, of course, he raw dogs Katie.

He is probably the nut-low for a child actor in a roll this big and serious. It's like the casting agents didn't understand that cute was not the only quality of value in a child actor, and actually in this case it's the opposite of what's best.

[JKDS]

Walking Dead Rule: There must be exactly 1 male black character in Rick's group at all times.

Examples: Tdog is only black guy in the group. Tdog dies, therefore he is immediately replaced by one of the black male prisoners. The other one must therefore die. New black male traveler comes to the prison, therefore the black prisoner must now also die.

No verdict on how the rule might apply to black women.

There is suspicion that it also applies to old men, re dale and hershal.

[boost]

ha, ya, it's great how they want to be the show where anyone can die, yet they also want to have X Y and Z archetypes at all times. Also note that Lawrey died, and then we were given an equally nonsensical woman who no one likes-- only this one has a sword and dreads.

[JL]

The new black guy is Cutty from The Wire. He'll probably last longer than the last guy.

Man I hate Carl...and Andrea...and Michonne...

[JKDS]

Omg how can you hate michonne? She makes me laugh soooo much.

That whole fight scene with the gov'nah at the end was comedy gold! I mean, ya shes pretty 1D...and i question the physics of being able to decapitate zombies with katanas, but i just love watching Detective Mad run around glaring at everyone all the damn time lol,

[BennyLaRue]

what? Kharl has no shot at redemption. Unless, of course, he raw dogs Katie.

That was implied.

Was sort of annoyed how the scenes from the rest of the season gave away the cliffhanger.

[BennyLaRue]

Omg how can you hate michonne? She makes me laugh soooo much.

That whole fight scene with the gov'nah at the end was comedy gold! I mean, ya shes pretty 1D...and i question the physics of being able to decapitate zombies with katanas, but i just love watching Detective Mad run around glaring at everyone all the damn time lol,

I didn't read the comics but got the sense she's an amazing character in them. The show version seems to be a combination of bad acting and uninspired writing. But as a whole, this season is one vigintillion times better than last season.

[d0zer]

That whole fight scene with the gov'nah at the end was comedy gold! I mean, ya shes pretty 1D...and i question the physics of being able to decapitate zombies with katanas

It's np, their flesh is all rotted out and we'll just assume the bones are weak too, u see glen tear that arm apart? The arm bone shank was JUST strong enough to stab that motherfucker but JUST weak enough for dreadchick to slice thru that shit no problem.

nothing to see here gentleman, just some badass swords vs zombies.

[wufwugy]

I sure hope Admiral Armblade and Captain Crossbow can escape that unfortunate kerfuffle unscathed