why arent you working out bro?

[Reidak]

i was going to post in a thread i made a while ago. for anyone who remembers i had a bowflex that i hated and i wanted to sell it and buy some free weights and start working out.

So i sold my bowflex and re-invested it. I got a really good deal just by chance on craigslist:

- two adjustable benches
- 2 olympic bars
- roughly 400 pounds of plates
- dumbbells 5lb-50lb hex style
- dumbbell rack
- plate tree

$300. the benches are gym quality. I also bought a power rack (saftey first)

so anyways, ive been working out for a couple months, and i wanted to share with everyone what my thoughts and feelings are about it.



First, id like to say the first week or two are really, really shitty. Everything hurts, you don't feel stronger.. you pretty much break yourself down and don't feel or see any results. Well not very noticable ones, my bench press increased right off the bat, but i think that might have been just due to you working out technique and being more confident.

After the first couple of weeks, i personally felt better. When i woke up I felt less sloppy, when i went to bed i fell asleep faster. I felt alot more regimented and that made me feel good.

A month in or so, probably 5 weeks ish, there was a noticeable change in my body composition. I put on mass on my arms and chest, and my back wings are much fuller. 5 weeks is nothing. it was a good return on the time i put in.

I believe that as humans who have evolved for many, many years, that our bodies are machines that need to be utilized with intensity. Only very recently have we made a shift to being lazy, docile beings. A body isnt meant to wake up, walk around a little bit and do nothing stimulating. A body needs to be worked to be maintained.

so.. why aren't you working out bro?

[wesrman]

I remember the old thread. Glad to see its going well.

[Reidak]

ty sir.

[ProZachNation]

well genetically we are designed to eat and keep eating, because in the past (and for a lot of people still) there is not enough to eat so when there is abundance to eat as much as you can.

I have started to use my dumbbells every day and was going to bench every day till the 2nd day in dropped a plate from the bar onto my bare foot taking some off, foot aint broke but hurts a ton. Gona try to get benching and using dumbbells every day.

And when my foot heals in a week or so start jogging at least 4 times a week.

[wesrman]

well genetically we are designed to eat and keep eating, because in the past (and for a lot of people still) there is not enough to eat so when there is abundance to eat as much as you can.

I have started to use my dumbbells every day and was going to bench every day till the 2nd day in dropped a plate from the bar onto my bare foot taking some off, foot aint broke but hurts a ton. Gona try to get benching and using dumbbells every day.

And when my foot heals in a week or so start jogging at least 4 times a week.

Push Ups FTW.

Great site.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/index.html

10 Week Size Surge A crash course for Packing On Muscle Weight
http://www.surviveall.net/ten_week_s...ge_booklet.htm

[Reidak]

I find at first its too easy to get overwhelmed with the all of the information there is available.

Basically, the only supplement you need is a good multivitamin. Followed by omega 3 capsules for good health. If you find you arent getting enough protein in your diet, you can buy protein powder. You need roughly 1-1.5g protein per pound of bodyweight. if you weigh 150 pounds, you need 150-225 (roughly, these are just general guidelines) grams of protein. If you can eat it, just supplement it. But food > supps.

Don't waste money on fancy supplements. Its all hype/marketing. Pure 100% creatine monohydrate is something you might want to look into. It is debatable about its benefits and side effects. But other than that, you really don't NEED anything else. Most products are just overhyped concoctions. srsly.

As far as diet goes, try eating 5-6 meals instead of 2 or 3 a day. It keeps your body fueled. Personally, i find it hard to eat that many times a day. I usually eat 3 or 4 times a day. Meh. Im not perfect.

The main thing is just keeping up with the workouts. If you are really, really hurting then your body is saying rest. So rest. But don't stop, and don't be soft on yourself. If your chest is still sore after 4 or 5 days, be a man and hit it again. If its really painful (as opposed to sore) then you might have torn something. Dont make it worse. You can set yourself back months if you have a tear and make it worse.

Your body knows best. Listen to it. After a couple weeks the DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) calms down. Theres another point, when you are working out after an hour, and you are new, you might be like "well... i don't feel really sore or tired yet."

this ISNT an excuse to go do like 4 more sets of bench press. Trust me, the next day you FEEL it. You pretty much make this mistake once and you don't do it again.

[Lukie]

agree with OP 100%. I've recently gotten back into the swing of things-- lifting, lifting with intensity, eating healthy, etc. The changes in my body, energy, and quality of life are just astonishing.

BB.com is a terrific site.

[Reidak]

i think 85% of the people who start working out and don't keep up with it just dont have the right mindset for it.

Everyone wants instant results. Working out just doesn't give you that. Your body won't just change by itsself. Its alot of work and the initial weeks are just a brutal period of pain and minor results.

If anyone wants to start working out, keep that in mind. After a month and a bit you are pretty much on track. Up until then you will wonder wtf you are doing to yourself.

[ProZachNation]

Not to be gay or anything but Phelps has a crazy body. He looks like he is pretty lean and muscular but when he flexes it is like holy shit muscles. I would most prefer that kinda body to those dudes who look (and probably are) on roids.

Are those results gained from more sets of lighter reps type workout, or is it because he works on probably 8+ hours a day ie unachievable to the average person.

[will641]

does this thought, "well now that im exercising i can drink a lot more and be fine," a lot? it crosses mine all the time, and i normally listen to it.

[Lukie]

well genetically we are designed to eat and keep eating, because in the past (and for a lot of people still) there is not enough to eat so when there is abundance to eat as much as you can.

I have started to use my dumbbells every day and was going to bench every day till the 2nd day in dropped a plate from the bar onto my bare foot taking some off, foot aint broke but hurts a ton. Gona try to get benching and using dumbbells every day.

And when my foot heals in a week or so start jogging at least 4 times a week.

ehhh

we are genetically designed (oxymoron?) that way because from an evolutionary standpoint, the ability to store fat was always a tremendous ADVANTAGE. people would go through periods of feast and famine, like you brought up, and you'd want your body to store fat for future energy stores and NOT muscle. Muscle is a huge liability in feast and famine mode (easily recreated by eating 1 or 2 large meals a day, or less) because it burns so many calories and jacks up your metabolism.

hence, the universally accepted approach to eat many (6 seems to be a good number) small meals a day.

[wufwugy]

Not to be gay or anything but Phelps has a crazy body. He looks like he is pretty lean and muscular but when he flexes it is like holy shit muscles. I would most prefer that kinda body to those dudes who look (and probably are) on roids.

Are those results gained from more sets of lighter reps type workout, or is it because he works on probably 8+ hours a day ie unachievable to the average person.

phelps' body isnt actually that impressive on the muscular side of things. any healthy man on the planet could achieve his level of muscularity on 3 hours of lifting a week. in fact, many moderately overweight men have as much muscle as he does, the distinction is in that they're not lean so it doesnt look like it. the hardest part for most people to achieve a body like his would be dieting to achieve that leanness.

getting big muscles is actually pretty easy for those of us who are not heavily ectomorphic (but even they can nom nom nom enough). if you do nothing but eat eat eat eat eat eat you will get huge muscles, but you'll also be a fatass. this is because when the body is anabolic (calorie surplus creates this) both muscle and adipose cells grow. muscle just happens to grow slower and peaks out, adipose tissue grows fast and doesnt peak.

ginormous bodybuilders are that ginormous mainly due to the ginormous amounts of steroids, igf1/growth hormone, insulin, and some other drugs they use.

via lifting, you increase muscularity by loading a high enough intensity to activate fast twitch fibers (bottom end is approximately 60% of one-rep max) and doing that for enough volume (thats a little more difficult to address from a formulaic perspective), and by eating enough/more to provide nutrients for muscle synthesis. humans vary widely with how much we have to eat to gain.

the way to get 'hard' or 'toned' is simply in being lean. you can be weak and tiny as shit, but if youre lean as shit then your body will be hard. muscle size does affect definition to a small degree, though, but not much.

[Lukie]

wuf is spot on here

[wesrman]

RossTraining is a great site.
http://www.rosstraining.com/


"WARM MARBLE" The Lethal Physique of Bruce Lee
http://www.mikementzer.com/blee.html

This site allows you to map your running/biking route and allows you to calculate distance, average speed, calories burned etc. Very cool imo.
http://www.mapmyfitness.com/

[bjsaust]

This shit aint hard.

Lift heavy things.

Dont eat crap.

All the rest is just fine tuning.

Unfortunately sometimes its easier to say than stick to .

[swiggidy]

does this thought, "well now that im exercising i can drink a lot more and be fine," a lot? it crosses mine all the time, and i normally listen to it.

Sounds good to me

Random Theory: Fat absorbs alcohol (fact). Muscle mass helps burn off alcohol (speculation). So I can drink for a long time, but it hits me relatively quickly. Obv conditioning helps.

[Reidak]

well genetically we are designed to eat and keep eating, because in the past (and for a lot of people still) there is not enough to eat so when there is abundance to eat as much as you can.

I have started to use my dumbbells every day and was going to bench every day till the 2nd day in dropped a plate from the bar onto my bare foot taking some off, foot aint broke but hurts a ton. Gona try to get benching and using dumbbells every day.

And when my foot heals in a week or so start jogging at least 4 times a week.

ehhh

we are genetically designed (oxymoron?) that way because from an evolutionary standpoint, the ability to store fat was always a tremendous ADVANTAGE. people would go through periods of feast and famine, like you brought up, and you'd want your body to store fat for future energy stores and NOT muscle. Muscle is a huge liability in feast and famine mode (easily recreated by eating 1 or 2 large meals a day, or less) because it burns so many calories and jacks up your metabolism.

hence, the universally accepted approach to eat many (6 seems to be a good number) small meals a day.

QFT

if you find yourself at 4pm having only eaten once, and you aren't getting home until 8, walking past a mcdonalds... you are better off ordering a value meal cheeseburger than skipping eating. 500 dirty cals better than 0 cals.

[bode]

jishu if you spent 1/2 as much time working out as you do posting/talking/thinking about it, you would probably be ripped up by now.

[kmind]

before / after pic for motivation?

[wesrman]

jishu if you spent 1/2 as much time working out as you do posting/talking/thinking about it, you would probably be ripped up by now.

I agree to a point, but being obsessed can be good for motivation.

[Lukie]

well genetically we are designed to eat and keep eating, because in the past (and for a lot of people still) there is not enough to eat so when there is abundance to eat as much as you can.

I have started to use my dumbbells every day and was going to bench every day till the 2nd day in dropped a plate from the bar onto my bare foot taking some off, foot aint broke but hurts a ton. Gona try to get benching and using dumbbells every day.

And when my foot heals in a week or so start jogging at least 4 times a week.

ehhh

we are genetically designed (oxymoron?) that way because from an evolutionary standpoint, the ability to store fat was always a tremendous ADVANTAGE. people would go through periods of feast and famine, like you brought up, and you'd want your body to store fat for future energy stores and NOT muscle. Muscle is a huge liability in feast and famine mode (easily recreated by eating 1 or 2 large meals a day, or less) because it burns so many calories and jacks up your metabolism.

hence, the universally accepted approach to eat many (6 seems to be a good number) small meals a day.

QFT

if you find yourself at 4pm having only eaten once, and you aren't getting home until 8, walking past a mcdonalds... you are better off ordering a value meal cheeseburger than skipping eating. 500 dirty cals better than 0 cals.

I've been trying to plan ahead to avoid these situations, but they do happen, and I like to eat. So you know what I'm going to do, I just try not to make a habit out of it. Same thing when I go to a restaurant.. I don't really make it a point to watch what I eat (within reason) as long as I'm eating very clean at home (which I absolutely have been).

My bigger problem is I drink too much, despite cutting back. Oh well, can't be perfect.

[Jack Sawyer]

why arent you working out bro?

cuz i'm lazy.

i've been doin' yoga in the morning, but its only so good as fatburnaments.

so, i've picked up running again, and basketball.

gotta trim of like 80 pounds of chocolate, so I get to remain of pure steel. no definite timeline, other than ASAP.

[Lukie]

80 pounds, nice

before/afters?

[Jack Sawyer]

bear in mind i'm 6'5", so I may not look like it

before: 300

hopeful after: 220

I wanna go from OL to QB to WR more or less

[wufwugy]

as for op

im not working out right now (other than mild cardio, but thats pussy work) because im still not recuperated from all the injuries i acquired from too much heavy lifting a few years ago. after 8 months of deep tissue massage im much much better, but still not good enough

best times of my life were when i was heavily physically active. its just that good.

[gabe]

if you find yourself at 4pm having only eaten once, and you aren't getting home until 8, walking past a mcdonalds... you are better off ordering a value meal cheeseburger than skipping eating. 500 dirty cals better than 0 cals.

yea, but like someone else said, alot of fat looking people have muscles too, which means you gotta get lean if you want to show off muscles, which means you should skip the dirty cals if you arent close to being lean, right?

[wesrman]

I wouldnt recomend eating any more than 1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight. A lot of the info in muscle mags is geared towards bodybuilders that are more concerned with adding muscle fast, than they are about their health. Not saying they arent good, just that you have to take them with a grain of salt. FWIW i have hundreds of them.

[Reidak]

if you find yourself at 4pm having only eaten once, and you aren't getting home until 8, walking past a mcdonalds... you are better off ordering a value meal cheeseburger than skipping eating. 500 dirty cals better than 0 cals.

yea, but like someone else said, alot of fat looking people have muscles too, which means you gotta get lean if you want to show off muscles, which means you should skip the dirty cals if you arent close to being lean, right?

There is a right way and a wrong way to get lean.

When you don't eat, your body will eat some muscle protein for energy. This isn't good, especially since muscle is so hard to gain. This is why starving yourself is such a bad idea for a total 'plan'. A 16 year old girl who eats 600 calories a day isn't doing herself much favours.

To get lean, you should be doing it right. You gradually shed the fat, while maintaining the muscle you worked so hard to build. Here's how..

The body itsself uses energy whether the person is active or not. It is known as the Basal Metabolic Rate ( BMR ) http://walking.about.com/cs/calories/l/blcalcalc.htm

Mine is 2100, meaning that just to maintain my current weight without gaining or losing anything, sitting in a chair all day, i can eat 2100 calories and be the same day after day. I will lose some strength and mass due to inactivinty, but more or less id stay the same.

To lose weight, you just need to shed fat. If i were cutting weight I would figure out ' 2100 + exercise = calories to maintain '. Say i ran 30 minutes and lifted 30 minutes everyday and burned 900 calories doing so. That means i need 3000 calories to maintain weight. I don't want to. A rule of thumb is to eat 500 under maintenance. To lose a pound of fat you need to burn 3100 (im pretty sure) calories. keeping 500 under maintenance per day will lose about a pound of fat a week, without losing muscle; which keeps your metabolism high (metabolism is just your muscle to fat ratio)

[Reidak]

if you find yourself at 4pm having only eaten once, and you aren't getting home until 8, walking past a mcdonalds... you are better off ordering a value meal cheeseburger than skipping eating. 500 dirty cals better than 0 cals.

yea, but like someone else said, alot of fat looking people have muscles too, which means you gotta get lean if you want to show off muscles, which means you should skip the dirty cals if you arent close to being lean, right?

And you want to keep the body fed so it doesnt break down muscle for energy. Thats the main reason id eat that cheezburger. The problem with fast food is that someone will order a 1200 calorie meal and then go to consume 2500 more calories that day. Its really easy to just plow down a bunch of shit thats bad for you.

[wesrman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hk9z1YVcE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPD38...eature=related

[Lukie]

well genetically we are designed to eat and keep eating, because in the past (and for a lot of people still) there is not enough to eat so when there is abundance to eat as much as you can.

I have started to use my dumbbells every day and was going to bench every day till the 2nd day in dropped a plate from the bar onto my bare foot taking some off, foot aint broke but hurts a ton. Gona try to get benching and using dumbbells every day.

And when my foot heals in a week or so start jogging at least 4 times a week.

ehhh

we are genetically designed (oxymoron?) that way because from an evolutionary standpoint, the ability to store fat was always a tremendous ADVANTAGE. people would go through periods of feast and famine, like you brought up, and you'd want your body to store fat for future energy stores and NOT muscle. Muscle is a huge liability in feast and famine mode (easily recreated by eating 1 or 2 large meals a day, or less) because it burns so many calories and jacks up your metabolism.

hence, the universally accepted approach to eat many (6 seems to be a good number) small meals a day.

speaking of 'recreating' situations from an evolutionary standpoint:

the new fad seems to be low carb, high protein, high fat (as in high amounts of bad fats from bad sources), with the idea that we evolved on meat so voila, we should only eat meat and meat products. so eat all the steak and eggs and wings and sausage and everything else you want, just don't dare touch any carbs.

B. S.

first, wild meat (i.e. not cage grown, shrink wrapped, hormonally-altered-to-make-the-meat-fatter-and-thus-more-tender meat) it's much leaner than the stuff we typically buy in the grocery store. it's also much higher in omega-3 fats (i.e. the good fats).

so, in order to *recreate* this, our first step would be to eat lean meats and lean cuts of protein.. e.g. fish, boneless/skinless chicken breasts, et al. then add the omega-3 fats back into the diet via good fat sources like nuts and oils.

then add in some whole, unprocessed plant foods like fresh fruit, veggies, oatmeal, brown rice, etc, and you have yourself a good diet.

[thizzSantaCruz]

I just started hitting the gym again and had to reup on some supplies and the people at GNC convinced me to get the pill version of creatine. Anyone had experience with it?

[bigspenda73]

lol nah

powder is cheaper and goes in a shake

anyways, I too started hitting the gym last week, doing Rippetoe's SS program, hopefully in the next 3 months I can gain a lot of strength.

[wesrman]

Creatine is over rated imo. I prefer glutamine cuz i feel the difference in energy levels, but all you really need after a workout is protein powder, sugar (gateorade, juice etc.) and water.

As far as pill vs powder, id go with the powder for sure.

FWIW ive been crushing again (weights/biking/running etc) since May and just started working at UPS. I load and or unload trailers (ie lift boxes) all night, which is very fast paced hard work and is definately getting me in even better shape than just working out.

[Lukie]

Creatine is over rated imo. I prefer glutamine cuz i feel the difference in energy levels, but all you really need after a workout is protein powder, sugar (gateorade, juice etc.) and water.

As far as pill vs powder, id go with the powder for sure.

FWIW ive been crushing again (weights/biking/running etc) since May and just started working at UPS. I load and or unload trailers (ie lift boxes) all night, which is very fast paced hard work and is definately getting me in even better shape than just working out.

I think juice is bad PWO (post-workout) because it's generally very heavy on fructose which can only be metabolized in the liver and not in the muscle which is what you want.. hence the most commonly accepted PWO drink is whey/dextrose/maltodextrin.. which causes a very anabolic insulin spike, replenishes muscle glycogen levels and does a lot of really good stuff (and some questionable stuff too.. more on that later).

whatever you're drinking or eating (preferably drinking) PWO, it's a perfect time to take at least a multivitamin (once with breakfast, once PWO), and whatever else you want to throw in there (e.g. glutamine, creatine, BCAAs, etc). you may want to do some research for optimal combinations.. glutamine and creatine for example, while they perform vastly different tasks, compete for the same receptors inside muscle cells.

I personally don't subscribe to the dextrose/maltodextrin theory PWO anymore.. too much crap in the body. natural foods... something like 12 oz milk, 2 large scoops whey, half cup oats, large banana, frozen berries, spoon of glutamine all blended together (tastes like a milkshake), and multivitamin/mineral/antiox supplement on the side. the milk and oats in that would traditionally be seen as bad (slows absorbsion PWO) but there's some science to back it up and it's worked great for me.

[Lukie]

I just started hitting the gym again and had to reup on some supplies and the people at GNC convinced me to get the pill version of creatine. Anyone had experience with it?

They sold you pills because either 1) they were more expensive and they get commission, 2) people that work at GNC are generally clueless, or most likely 3) both.

Just get some pure, powdered creatine monohydrate. Take desired amount with PWO shake or with a large meal. Again I'd research this a little more, and maybe research if you want to cycle it or not. Some people will do 20g for a while, cycle off, some people do something like 5g every day. Gotta figure out what works for you.

Also, my opinion only of course, GNC is garbage. Just get your stuff online.. half the price, better stuff, better selection, takes less time. I normally just use bodybuilding.com.. great site.

[thizzSantaCruz]

Creatine is over rated imo. I prefer glutamine cuz i feel the difference in energy levels, but all you really need after a workout is protein powder, sugar (gateorade, juice etc.) and water.

As far as pill vs powder, id go with the powder for sure.

FWIW ive been crushing again (weights/biking/running etc) since May and just started working at UPS. I load and or unload trailers (ie lift boxes) all night, which is very fast paced hard work and is definately getting me in even better shape than just working out.

my protein shake has glutamijne in it so its all good ( drunk post)

[Reidak]

General Info about supplements:

1) It's not about supplements. The main goal is to eat a good, lean protein based diet with complex carbs. If you want to mess with keto, or anabolic (meat) diet; try it out.

2) You need a multivitamin. Fish oils are really good for overall health and joint health.

3) Optimum nutrition chocolate protein is great. Its slightly more, but as lukie alluded to about BCAA's, I checked and in every scoop there is the equivalent of 1.5/1/1 g of BCAA's, or 1 reccomended serving by Optimum Nutrition's standards. They sell BCAA powder on the side also.

4) Glutamine. This shit is great for muscle repair. Throw it in your next post workout shake. It is really, cheap. At GNC there was a 2 for 1 special so i got 1,000g for like $35. In Canada.

5) Hmm.. Creatine time. All I can say is do your OWN research on it. Base your opinions on the facts you find. Weigh the pros and cons. Just be smart with it and you will be fine.

In Canada: supplementscanada online is really good. Free shipping over $100, prices are good.

USA: bodybuilding.com .. I'd say read their forums for a ton of good shit, also buy stuff from them. Free samples too.

[jyms]

Creatine rocks, Every athlete in the world uses it because of the evidence that it works and works well. Unfortunately the clueless sheep that work at GNC and other stores think everything is for energy. Creatine is not for energy in the sense that you would think. If you don't hit the weights hard, don't bother.

As for the cost to benefit, creatine out ways almost every supplement except whey protein.

[Lukie]

1) It's not about supplements. The main goal is to eat a good, lean protein based diet with complex carbs. If you want to mess with keto, or anabolic (meat) diet; try it out.

Here's the thing.. when you start lifting, you are going to see great results regardless, especially if you are eating a good diet. No doubt that nutrition, training, (and sleep) are more important for any lifter than supplements, but it doesn't mean they aren't important. Eventually you are just going to plateau.. nothing you can do about it.

Like TJ alluded to.. creatine is awesome. What I usually hear though is, "you just gain water weight". Initially yeah... creatine pulls water, nutrients, and other awesomeness into the muscle cell, creating a more anabolic environment. The result is more strength, speed, explosiveness, and if you lift hard, eventually lean muscle mass. I don't currently take it, will probably cycle on it for a little bit in the winter though.

2) You need a multivitamin. Fish oils are really good for overall health and joint health.

You definitely need a multivitamin, but not just any old one at the grocery store or GNC. Get a real one. Animal paks by universal are probably the best, but vitamin paks by ISS are very good too and a little cheaper.

For good fats I'd just eat some fish, nuts (walnuts, almonds, cashews), and cook with olive oil.

I have been taking a joint supplement though lately.. animal flex, which I would definitely recommend. It has fish oil and glucosamine, among other things.

4) Glutamine. This shit is great for muscle repair. Throw it in your next post workout shake. It is really, cheap. At GNC there was a 2 for 1 special so i got 1,000g for like $35. In Canada.

It's funny, for as someone who says you don't need supplements, you take a lot and have a lot of good things to say about them.

That price is pretty typical... $30-$40 for 1000g, and thats without a 2 for 1 special. Like I said, just get your stuff online. Better variety and better price, and it's not even close. Plus you don't have to deal with those bumbling idiots at GNC...

Re: glutamine, the general concencus these days is that if you're already eating a ton of protein (i.e. bulking), supp'ing with glutamine is kind of a waste. It does have some other benefits though (immune system support for example), it's cheap, and doesn't have any negative side effects.

5) Hmm.. Creatine time. All I can say is do your OWN research on it. Base your opinions on the facts you find. Weigh the pros and cons. Just be smart with it and you will be fine.

Just drink a lot of water with it and you'll be fine.

In Canada: supplementscanada online is really good. Free shipping over $100, prices are good.

USA: bodybuilding.com .. I'd say read their forums for a ton of good shit, also buy stuff from them. Free samples too.

eh? I was under the impression that bb.com would ship to Canada... my bad.

[Reidak]

1) It's not about supplements. The main goal is to eat a good, lean protein based diet with complex carbs. If you want to mess with keto, or anabolic (meat) diet; try it out.

Here's the thing.. when you start lifting, you are going to see great results regardless, especially if you are eating a good diet. No doubt that nutrition, training, (and sleep) are more important for any lifter than supplements, but it doesn't mean they aren't important. Eventually you are just going to plateau.. nothing you can do about it.

Like TJ alluded to.. creatine is awesome. What I usually hear though is, "you just gain water weight". Initially yeah... creatine pulls water, nutrients, and other awesomeness into the muscle cell, creating a more anabolic environment. The result is more strength, speed, explosiveness, and if you lift hard, eventually lean muscle mass. I don't currently take it, will probably cycle on it for a little bit in the winter though.

2) You need a multivitamin. Fish oils are really good for overall health and joint health.

You definitely need a multivitamin, but not just any old one at the grocery store or GNC. Get a real one. Animal paks by universal are probably the best, but vitamin paks by ISS are very good too and a little cheaper.

For good fats I'd just eat some fish, nuts (walnuts, almonds, cashews), and cook with olive oil.

I have been taking a joint supplement though lately.. animal flex, which I would definitely recommend. It has fish oil and glucosamine, among other things.

4) Glutamine. This shit is great for muscle repair. Throw it in your next post workout shake. It is really, cheap. At GNC there was a 2 for 1 special so i got 1,000g for like $35. In Canada.

It's funny, for as someone who says you don't need supplements, you take a lot and have a lot of good things to say about them.

That price is pretty typical... $30-$40 for 1000g, and thats without a 2 for 1 special. Like I said, just get your stuff online. Better variety and better price, and it's not even close. Plus you don't have to deal with those bumbling idiots at GNC...

Re: glutamine, the general concencus these days is that if you're already eating a ton of protein (i.e. bulking), supp'ing with glutamine is kind of a waste. It does have some other benefits though (immune system support for example), it's cheap, and doesn't have any negative side effects.

5) Hmm.. Creatine time. All I can say is do your OWN research on it. Base your opinions on the facts you find. Weigh the pros and cons. Just be smart with it and you will be fine.

Just drink a lot of water with it and you'll be fine.

In Canada: supplementscanada online is really good. Free shipping over $100, prices are good.

USA: bodybuilding.com .. I'd say read their forums for a ton of good shit, also buy stuff from them. Free samples too.

eh? I was under the impression that bb.com would ship to Canada... my bad.

Lol; I guess I think in terms of necessary sups: Protein, vitamin, creatine, and glutamine as being kind of the building blocks. Then you get into the whole fat burners and no xplode type supplements; which I think are just frivilous and wasteful.

I think BB /may/ ship to canada, but im not 100% sure. If they do its a big shipping fee.

[wesrman]

Herc's Nutrition FTW ! ! ! !
They're all over Niagara as far as i know and are usually way cheaper than GNC. My buddy used to own one.

[Lukie]

Lol; I guess I think in terms of necessary sups: Protein, vitamin, creatine, and glutamine as being kind of the building blocks. Then you get into the whole fat burners and no xplode type supplements; which I think are just frivilous and wasteful.

i disagree

[Reidak]

Lol; I guess I think in terms of necessary sups: Protein, vitamin, creatine, and glutamine as being kind of the building blocks. Then you get into the whole fat burners and no xplode type supplements; which I think are just frivilous and wasteful.

i disagree

Okay, I agree that they are still useful. However, when you compare no-xplode to protein, or a multi, or creatine ; you want one of the latter 3. Someone new to the bb thing might walk in, and not understand the fundamentals of what they need. They might hear about their friend taking this supp and think 'if i take it, ill get his results' not knowing that hes supping protein, taking his multi, cycling creatine. If he goes in to buy a couple things, he should get creatine and protein, or protein and something. If he goes in wanting to buy everything, then yes - no-xplode or something specialized like that is good

[bigspenda73]

Guys, this is not that complicated

To me, there are 2 very important times of the day where you need to be "perfect" if you want to put on mass and muscle. One is when you wake up (i.e. breakfast) and the other is immediately after your workout.

It's already been mentioned by Lukkake, but you need a post work out shake containing dextrose/maltodextrin to help trigger a few key body functions. I order mine from the site www.trueprotein.com, where you will find a post workout recovery shake that you can customize (flavors, sweeteners, amount (in lbs.), and additional supplements). On top of this I throw in a tbsp of creating and l-glutamine, and I drink it as soon as I can post work out.

You have a window of time, it's not a ton of time, but it is plenty to get the proper nutrition in post workout. To me, this is more important than the work out itself. In the gym all you have to worry about is finding something heavy and moving it.

[bjsaust]

Someone new to this weightlifting thing would be better off eating fresh healthy foods and working out hard than pissing money away on supplements.

If I use a workout or postworkout drink its just Protein Powder and a mix of Dextrose/Maltodextrine (you can buy those for like $5 for 5kg or something silly) sometimes with some creatine (again, buy the cheapest creatine monohydrate powder you can find, anything else is wasting money). Personally since I workout at home I just make sure I get a good meal of protein and carbs after I'm done usually.

As for supplements, I take the big one - fish oil, cant believe that hasnt scored a mention, its basically the closest thing man has found to a miracle drug, a multi-vitamin and glucosamine (coz I've had a lot of joint issues from sport).

Thats all the 5% extra shit though, if you're not eating healthy the majority of the time and working your ass off when you're in the gym you might as well just tip that stuff down the toilet.

[Lukie]

Lol; I guess I think in terms of necessary sups: Protein, vitamin, creatine, and glutamine as being kind of the building blocks. Then you get into the whole fat burners and no xplode type supplements; which I think are just frivilous and wasteful.

i disagree

Okay, I agree that they are still useful. However, when you compare no-xplode to protein, or a multi, or creatine ; you want one of the latter 3. Someone new to the bb thing might walk in, and not understand the fundamentals of what they need. They might hear about their friend taking this supp and think 'if i take it, ill get his results' not knowing that hes supping protein, taking his multi, cycling creatine. If he goes in to buy a couple things, he should get creatine and protein, or protein and something. If he goes in wanting to buy everything, then yes - no-xplode or something specialized like that is good

I can't necessarily disagree with any of this. Try this though...

Order a bottle of Lipo-6, 240 caps.

On lifting days, take 2 caps before breakfast and 2 more caps before you lift (not too late, unless you don't like to sleep), on as empty of a stomach as possible within the framework of your diet.

On non-lifting days, take 2 caps before morning cardio before breakfast. Short and sweet, high intensity. 2 more caps before a meal early in the afternoon.

basically this will give you mad energy during your workout and peel off bodyfat like nothing you've ever done before.

I'd use this for 2 months tops (hence 240 caps), then take some time off it. You shouldn't need to cut more than 8 weeks though if you eat relatively clean year-round.

[Lukie]

bump

So I met a new 'that guy' in the weight room today. Anybody who has spent any time at a gym has seen any number of different characters working out. For example:

http://www.expatexchange.com/lib.cfm?articleID=1591

Today I ran into one that I've never encountered before. For lack of a better term, we're going to call him jeeeeeeeeeesus.

Queue all the lukie-working-out-jokes, but I took a long time off and really got back into lifting seriously over the summer. I've been lifting a lot, eating a lot, etc. I've gotten a lot bigger/stronger.

So anyway, friday is arms day, and I get done done doing a superset of something.. some type of curl followed by skullcrushers. This guy says something like, 'hey, that's a nice workout plan you've got there'. I say thank you, he introduces himself as Nick, I say my name is Eric, and I start my next set. Curls, then in my set of skullcrushers (where I'm toward the end of my set and clearly working hard and struggling), he starts asking if I've gotten my spiritual workout in.

So I put the weight down and just kind of laugh it off.. not today haha, or something. Then he starts talking about jeeeeeeeeesus and quoting all sorts of wacko passages from the bible. I politely thank him for the advice and encouragement and go on with my workout.

Of course, he starts following me (I'm clearly not interested at this point and have walked away from him at least twice, letting him know as politely as possible I'm not interested in his B.S.). Eventually he gets the point and says loudly as I'm walking away, "you better call before your right ventricle collapses". What a fucking douchebag.

So I go on with my workout and someone else comes up to me and says that guy does that to people all the time. Like just pretends to workout and goes up to people and talks about god. Later on I'm doing some calf raises, which just so happens to be by the fitness desk where there's a ~15 year old kid working. Of course, jeeeeeeeeesus starts having him read a fucking bible. I can't make this shit up, seriously.

brag: someone implicitly told me I use steroids even though I never have, so I must be getting a little bigger

beat: new gym character to add to the list

variance: this stupid post

[wufwugy]

this thread needs the pics of DieselWeasel blowing himself

[Lukie]

this thread needs jeeeeeeeeeeesus

fyp

[ProZachNation]

my new work out is everytime I enter my house or leave or enter my bedroom I do as many push ups as I can.

I am sore... But I have noticed I can do more than before hurah

[wesrman]

Heres what im doing right now:
http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...s_westside.htm

And a few links to cool shit that might be helpfull/interesting to others:
http://training.fitness.com/weight-t...rst-34522.html

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_..._for_beginners

[kb coolman]

So anyway, friday is arms day, and I get done done doing a superset of something.. some type of curl followed by skullcrushers. This guy says something like, 'hey, that's a nice workout plan you've got there'. I say thank you, he introduces himself as Nick, I say my name is Eric, and I start my next set. Curls, then in my set of skullcrushers (where I'm toward the end of my set and clearly working hard and struggling), he starts asking if I've gotten my spiritual workout in.

Without starting a whole religious debate ('cuz I know there are all types on this forum), let me say that I am a born again, Bible believing Christian. Yes, I love Jesus. But guys like this really piss me off. Ugh. It's so irritating, I can't even put it into words. You might as well dump a pile of garbage just inside my front door and try to sell me a vacuum cleaner. Holy crap. I'm sitting here thinking about this guy..."all I know about you to this point is that you are interrupting me, you're annoying, you're decietful (by pretending you're interested in my workout), and you have absutely no respect for my time, nor that of others. Why would I care anything about what you say about religion?"

sigh. sorry, bro.

[Lukie]

So anyway, friday is arms day, and I get done done doing a superset of something.. some type of curl followed by skullcrushers. This guy says something like, 'hey, that's a nice workout plan you've got there'. I say thank you, he introduces himself as Nick, I say my name is Eric, and I start my next set. Curls, then in my set of skullcrushers (where I'm toward the end of my set and clearly working hard and struggling), he starts asking if I've gotten my spiritual workout in.

Without starting a whole religious debate ('cuz I know there are all types on this forum), let me say that I am a born again, Bible believing Christian. Yes, I love Jesus. But guys like this really piss me off. Ugh. It's so irritating, I can't even put it into words. You might as well dump a pile of garbage just inside my front door and try to sell me a vacuum cleaner. Holy crap. I'm sitting here thinking about this guy..."all I know about you to this point is that you are interrupting me, you're annoying, you're decietful (by pretending you're interested in my workout), and you have absutely no respect for my time, nor that of others. Why would I care anything about what you say about religion?"

sigh. sorry, bro.

I appreciate it.. I wasn't trying to start a religious debate either (there have been enough on FTR in the past). I don't have any problem with religious people either, it's people like this that try cramming it down others' throats that irritate me a bit, so I think we agree on that. It's good knowing there are sensical people among all types on this forum

[Lukie]

Heres what im doing right now:
http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...s_westside.htm

And a few links to cool shit that might be helpfull/interesting to others:
http://training.fitness.com/weight-t...rst-34522.html

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_..._for_beginners

here's what I've been doing the last month or so, although I think I'm going to change it up a bit because I think I'm starting to become slightly overtrained...

Mon: Chest, usually something like bench press, incline DB press, pullovers, and DB flyes

Tues: Quads, usually something like squats, leg press, leg extensions, hack squats

Wed: Shoulders + traps, usually something like military press, all 3 DB laterals, upright rows, and heavy shrugs

Thurs: Back and hamstrings, usually a good combination of deads and romanian deadlifts, pullups/chins, rows, and finish up with hamstring curls

Fri: BIs/TRIs/forearms.. the one day where I use extensive supersetting with biceps/triceps

I'm also doing calf and/or ab work on monday/wed/fri

sometimes I'll swim laps or do other cardio on Saturday.

Kinda burned out though, so I might take a week off and cut back to a 3 or 4 day split for a couple weeks. Or, most likely, I'll go against my reasoning and do this for another week and see how I feel.

My diet is excellent though and I sleep lots, so at least I have that down pretty well.

[bigspenda73]

Not reading anything that doesn't make you do Squats and deads

[bigred]

i hate squats and dead lifts sooooo much

[wesrman]

Not reading anything that doesn't make you do Squats and deads

The stuff i posted is based on squats and deads. They're the 2 main lifts ldo.

Lukie, id suggest you try a 2 way split and do it every other day or Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri. Either Upper/Lower or Push/Pull.

The reason im only working legs once per week is because at work i lift boxes all night long. So i basically do deadlifts over and over and found that my legs and lower back werent recovering.

[bigred]

So I'm thinking of working out twice a day. This would be my split:

All have a 20-30 minute warmup run, and abs in afternoon session

Monday: Chest in morning, Biceps in afternoon
Tuesday: Back in morning, triceps in afternoon
Wednesday: Legs in morning, shoulders in afternoon

Rest day, repeat

Thoughts? I'm not sure how i feel about the breakup

[wesrman]

You cant do biceps the day before back, or triceps the day after chest because they will never recover.

Are you new to working out??? If so read the links i posted and pick a proven routine. And if you're not new, read the links i posted and pick a proven routine..lol.

Keep it simple do the big lifts, eat well and you will grow. Multiway splits arent very good for anyone except advanced lifters and people on roids for the most part. You should either do full body, or split your body in half. Upper/lower is probably the best because it gives you time to recover and works everything together.

[bigred]

Yeah, I realize that. That's why I don't like the breakup. I'm just bored with normal lifting.

Probably just needed some sense knocked into me from someone else.

I'm one of those people who over does things because moderation does not go with my ADD.

[wesrman]

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...lding_beginner

http://training.fitness.com/weight-t...1-a-18766.html

[bigred]

So ignoring my idiotic plan I wouldn't end up doing anyway...what advice do you have for someone who's in a hotel 4 days a week? Most hotel gyms have a treadmill and a universal if that.

[wesrman]

So ignoring my idiotic plan I wouldn't end up doing anyway...what advice do you have for someone who's in a hotel 4 days a week? Most hotel gyms have a treadmill and a universal if that.

Call ahead and book a hotel that has a good gym, make a flexible routine that you can change depending on where you are and/or carry equipment with you iff possible.

If you have no equipment you can do bodyweight exercises. Push ups, pull ups (on the hotel room door if u have to), bodyweight or one leg squats, dips with hands on a chair and legs on a coffee table, crunches, back hyper extensions.

And do your cardio either after your workout or better yet at a different time all together. I like to do mine either on my off days or many hours after my weights, but never before.

[bigred]

Wesrman, you have an aim sn? pharneox is mine.

[wesrman]

wesrman44, buit i havent used it in so long that i cant figure out how to get to the chat thing..lol.

Get msn FFS ! ! ! !

[Lukie]

wes I really disagree with the advice you gave me. It's a common theme I see when talking about lifting on ftr or 2p2 (new H&F forum).. most of the people are young poker players just getting into lifting. Of course there's nothing wrong with that, but all the routines are very basic and any hint of advanced techniques, cutting calories, *gasp* isolation exercises, or multiway splits are met with huge skepticism. The only advice you ever really get is, compound lifts, starting strength, squats, deadlifts, eat, grow. Nothing else matters.

Of course the above is good advice to an extent, but I was fortunate enough to have a brother that got me into lifting weights when I was about 10, so I've been doing this a long time (on and off) and I've tried countless different splits and approaches. I personally cannot imagine training on a 2-day split.. just too much to do in too little time. Intensity is also going to suffer (I can't imagine doing back and chest in the same day, quite frankly).

I have a sort of powerbuilding approach.. I do all the powerlifting lifts and my numbers are good, but I also do a lot of isolation work, particularly in the arms, shoulders, and calves.

different strokes for different folks, i guess.

[wesrman]

Heres the new routine im starting in a day or two(im sick atm). I may tweak a few things here and there based on how its going. Its based on this, but changed a bit because i did the actual one in the link for a while. http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...s_westside.htm The goal of this routine is to gain strength (max day) and muscle (rep day) at the same time.

I work at UPS and lift boxes all day so i am only doing one leg day per week. Someone else setting up a similar routine could add a rep lower body day to the split and work every other day or mon upper max, tue lower rep, thurs upper rep, fri lower max.

Mon- upper body (max effort)
Bench Press 4 sets 6,5,4,3 reps (pyramid up in weight)
Military Press 3 sets 8,7,6 reps (pyramid up in weight)
Pull ups 2 sets
Chin Ups 2 sets
Bent over (rear delt) Raise 2 sets 8 reps
Crunches 3 sets

Wed- Lower Body/Forearms
Squtas- 4 or 5 sets 4 reps
Deadlift- 2-4 sets 4 reps(# of sets depends on what ido at work)
Calf Raise- 3 sets 15 reps
Palm Up Wrist Curls-3 sets 14,13,12 reps
(superset with)
Paml Down Wrist Curls- 3 sets 14,13,12 reps

Fri- Upper Body (rep)
Incline bench Press- 4 sets 9,8,6,5 reps (pyramid up in weight)
Skull Crushers- 3 sets 9,7,5 reps
Seated Rows- 4 sets 8,7,6,5 reps (pyramid up)
Lateral Raise- 3 sets 8,7,7 reps
Barbell Curls- 3 sets 9,8,6 reps (pyramid up)
Crunches- 2 sets
(superset with)
Leg Raises- 2 sets

I add cardio in sometimes, but work burns so many calories that i dont really need too much.

A few things are different than i usually do but i like to experiment. For example on upper rep day i usually wont do triceps before shoulders or back but thats the way Joe has it set up and it hasnt effected my lifts in any way so far.

[wesrman]

different strokes for different folks, i guess.

I never liked the 5 days a week one body part per day thing and if you read what i said later in the thread is that those splits usually only work for advanced lifters.

Isolation exercises are good for bringing up certain bodyparts and adding variety, but they dont build muscle nearly as well imo. Chins and barbell curls are much better at building muscle than concentration curls, but that doesnt mean they arent good ever.

Besides any advice is useless unless you apply it and see how it works for you cuz everyone is different and responds differently.

EDIT: and the key to what u said is that you're doing the main lifts, not avoiding them in favour of isolation exercises which is what a lot of people do. The reason people preach the basics is because they work. Its more about hard work than anything else, and the basics are hard. Bench, deads, squats, pull ups etc.

[wufwugy]

lifting is not nearly as complex and multifaceted as enthusiasts think. among those who have a good idea what they're talking about, there is one theory and one theory alone. this theory changes names over time it seems (has been called supercompensation or fatigue/fitness), but it has not really been expounded upon much over the last few decades because there's nothing new. advances in record setting over the last several decades has been almost exclusively a genetic selection, equipment alteration, and drugging.

a couple years ago i got into lifting and studying it and i loved it and set out to be the best i could be and coach others. i read everything at tnation, everything at defrancos site, charliefrancis.com, ruggedmag.com, bodyrecomposition.com, totalelite.com, (the last four being among the best sources) and a few other sites. the more i learned about the subject the more i realized how simple it really is (theoretically, not necessarily easy to do)

hard work + consistency + time = results. i'll add to that balance and injury prevention/rehab, and there you have it. you can achieve what you want with any realistic split, any realistic exercises, and realistic balances of intensity volume and frequency.

you can do nothing but deadlifts and bench press, or nothing but isolation lifts, you can do high reps or low reps, you can do just one lift a day or ten a day. doesnt really matter as long as you work hard, are consistent, and give it time

fwiw, wes said something about having to recover from lifting, and he thinks this is a short term thing (like most other enthusiasts). this is not true because lifting results are a long term thing (for non-beginners). for fifty years, olympic coaches/athletes have been doing basically the same long term fitness/fatigue and peaking cycling. this can involve long periods of time of high intensity and long periods of time of lower intensity. just like with poker, it's the averages over the long term that provide the results.

[XTR1000]

so im posting here as demanded.

I didnt read thru all the stuff. Im XTR and I am working out. Im gonna post some more later.

[wesrman]

so im posting here as demanded.

I didnt read thru all the stuff. Im XTR and I am working out. Im gonna post some more later.

Fuckin right, you do as i tell you..lol.

I think we should use this thread to motivate each other.

[bigspenda73]

My question of the day:

Is it better to look stronger than you are or to be stronger than you look?

[wesrman]

My question of the day:

Is it better to look stronger than you are or to be stronger than you look?

I guess it depends on your goals.

If you only care about looks it doesnt matter how strong you are, but if you're an olympic weight lifter you want to be as strong as possible at the lowest possible weight.

[wesrman]

Are you working out lately Wufuguy???

And where the hell is Reidak???

Also can we get Jyms' ass in here too???