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Ash256
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11-29-2007, 05:54 PM
Post subject: Whilst we're on the subject...
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
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How do you feel about this type of stuff? What would you do as the sole leader of your country if these guys were doing this outside your parliament?
IMO: It's really difficult to get the right answer. I believe in free speech, but any form of silencing them would basically mean that my country isn't one that promotes free speech.
I'm a social liberal type who is strongly against racism and fascism, but seeing this type of shit sparks off the kind of opinions that I regularly hear coming from racists and BNP types (BNP: far-right British National Party, nicknamed the British Nazi Party by some), which makes me feel awful.
Part of me believes that everyone should have their right to free speech no matter what they have to say, part of me wants to see these people marched off UK soil at gunpoint as if they were an invading army (which some would say they are).
What do you guys think?
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biondino
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You know, even liberals can have a problem with non-white people using race and religion as an excuse for inciting murder and hatred.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
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i think these people should be locked up for instigating racial hatred.
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Jibalob
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Flush
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Nuke 'em
Problem solved
j/k
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PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
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will641
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
You know, even liberals can have a problem with non-white people using race and religion as an excuse for inciting murder and hatred.
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yeah you might have a problem with it, but i dont see these kind of pictures on any liberal news channels (i.e. everything but fox). I see plenty of anti-war and anti-military crap on there, but god forbid we put anything that might offend the muslim community.
people have such a distorted view of what muslim jihadists stand for. i am reading a book right now called The Truth About Muhammed, by Robert Spencer. I highly recommend it to anyone who likes to read and is interested in learning. It is very fact oriented, and less opinion oriented.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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euphoricism
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I'm fine with it. I don't believe any of the people demonstrating to be dangerous. Dangerous people don't hold signs, they hold weapons, and they shy away from cameras.
This is just a group of pissed off citizens, pissed because someone with large amounts of authority insulted their religion. I can understand, even sympathize with that.
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will641
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
I'm fine with it. I don't believe any of the people demonstrating to be dangerous. Dangerous people don't hold signs, they hold weapons, and they shy away from cameras.
This is just a group of pissed off citizens, pissed because someone with large amounts of authority insulted their religion. I can understand, even sympathize with that.
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well thats good that we know that you are a terrorist sympathizer or at least sympathize with with terrorist supporters. That is a good reason for an ignore all posts by user button. I mean wow.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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Galapogos
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Hey look, more protestors:
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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Pelion
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
i think these people should be locked up for instigating racial hatred.
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Agreed. The right to protest shouldn't extent to a right to issue death threats. I don't see why Islam should be treated any differently than any other religion. If a bunch of christians started going around shouting that they were going to behead richard dawkins then they would be put away. I don't see why this should be any different.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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flomo
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Full House
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iron my shirt bitch
holy crap that is funny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Protect dog
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will641
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by flomo
iron my shirt bitch
holy crap that is funny
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lols
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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will641
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
i think these people should be locked up for instigating racial hatred.
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Agreed. The right to protest shouldn't extent to a right to issue death threats. I don't see why Islam should be treated any differently than any other religion. If a bunch of christians started going around shouting that they were going to behead richard dawkins then they would be put away. I don't see why this should be any different. |
well i think euphoricism really put it best when he said that these people aren't dangerous.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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flomo
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Full House
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euph
the people with signs have their faces covered
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Protect dog
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Deanglow
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Moderator
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I am also a social liberal, but I am fed up with my types trying not to insult a certain religion or group with this politically correct bullshit.
I got an e-mail the other day from my school (Univ of FL, not THAT liberal) saying that a campus group was being dismantled because they posted a flyer that was titled "Radical Islam Wants You Dead." It was for an event that held a well-respected author discussing the war on terror, threats, etc. Apparently some Muslims on campus got offended and threated legal action or some other such crap.
I absolutely hate it when free speech is threated when fucking idiots get offended. It's not like anyone said "Nuke Muslims." Goddammit.
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biondino
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
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Originally Posted by biondino
You know, even liberals can have a problem with non-white people using race and religion as an excuse for inciting murder and hatred.
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yeah you might have a problem with it, but i dont see these kind of pictures on any liberal news channels (i.e. everything but fox). I see plenty of anti-war and anti-military crap on there, but god forbid we put anything that might offend the muslim community. |
Over here (England) these pictures did get heavy news coverage so it's not quite the same.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
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I think the vast majority of christians and muslims alike don't feel at all comfortable with being associated with fanatics of either religion. Both Christianity and Islam preach peace and non-violence and it takes a conscious, cynical misreading or misinterpretation of the scriptures for this kind of fundamentalist hate to foment.
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will641
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
I think the vast majority of christians and muslims alike don't feel at all comfortable with being associated with fanatics of either religion. Both Christianity and Islam preach peace and non-violence and it takes a conscious, cynical misreading or misinterpretation of the scriptures for this kind of fundamentalist hate to foment.
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for once i dont mean any offense to you, but that is just not true what you said about islam. if muhammed had his way, every non muslim would be dead. radical christians are stupid in their own right, but i dont hear them saying they want every non christian dead. they just try to convert you.
Oh i forgot, muhammed gave you a choice: convert or die.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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martindcx1e
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hey i posted this a while back. hi-five!
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=50181
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Ash256
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
for once i dont mean any offense to you, but that is just not true what you said about islam. if muhammed had his way, every non muslim would be dead.
Oh i forgot, muhammed gave you a choice: convert or die.
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Have you read the Qur'an?
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
for once i dont mean any offense to you, but that is just not true what you said about islam. if muhammed had his way, every non muslim would be dead.
Oh i forgot, muhammed gave you a choice: convert or die.
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Have you read the Qur'an? |
no, but i am in the process of reading a book by a guy named robert spencer, and he is a renowned expert religion . therefore, i am more inclined to believe him over a muslim, because he is unbiased.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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martindcx1e
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
for once i dont mean any offense to you, but that is just not true what you said about islam. if muhammed had his way, every non muslim would be dead.
Oh i forgot, muhammed gave you a choice: convert or die.
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Have you read the Qur'an? |
I hear a lot of people say these kinds of things about Muslims. I doubt most of them have actually read the Koran though. I am a bit confused by Islam though. On one hand it's easy to pick verses out of context from the Koran/Bible/etc. to try to prove a certain point. On another hand there are way more terrorist acts done by Muslims than members of other religions, and I doubt that it's just a case of their attacks getting more media coverage.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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euphoricism
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by flomo
euph
the people with signs have their faces covered
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That one does bother me, but i think he's just trying to look scary. People holding signs are not dangerous people. People who hold guns are dangerous people, and they don't protest peacefully. They practice diplomacy of the bomb.
Took a great course for my degree titled "The Modern Terrorist" and it traced islamic terrorism back through the centuries.. Great stuff.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
for once i dont mean any offense to you, but that is just not true what you said about islam. if muhammed had his way, every non muslim would be dead.
Oh i forgot, muhammed gave you a choice: convert or die.
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Have you read the Qur'an? |
I hear a lot of people say these kinds of things about Muslims. I doubt most of them have actually read the Koran though. I am a bit confused by Islam though. On one hand it's easy to pick verses out of context from the Koran/Bible/etc. to try to prove a certain point. On another hand there are way more terrorist acts done by Muslims than members of other religions, and I doubt that it's just a case of their attacks getting more media coverage. |
Islam has a long history of Jihad. Jihad is not new. There are five "pillars" in islam. Long, long ago certain extreme (not necessarily extremist, but certainly fundamentalist, if that makes sense) wrote about adding a sixth pillar -- Jihad (which means WAY more than just killing americans)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_pillar_of_Islam
In fact in Hamas' founding charter, Jihad is included. It is becoming more mainstream every day. Again, Jihad does not necessarily mean "go out and kill the infidels"... but some do take it that way.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
I think the vast majority of christians and muslims alike don't feel at all comfortable with being associated with fanatics of either religion. Both Christianity and Islam preach peace and non-violence and it takes a conscious, cynical misreading or misinterpretation of the scriptures for this kind of fundamentalist hate to foment.
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for once i dont mean any offense to you, but that is just not true what you said about islam. if muhammed had his way, every non muslim would be dead. radical christians are stupid in their own right, but i dont hear them saying they want every non christian dead. they just try to convert you.
Oh i forgot, muhammed gave you a choice: convert or die. |
You need to read more. You're severely misguided.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
for once i dont mean any offense to you, but that is just not true what you said about islam. if muhammed had his way, every non muslim would be dead.
Oh i forgot, muhammed gave you a choice: convert or die.
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Have you read the Qur'an? |
I hear a lot of people say these kinds of things about Muslims. I doubt most of them have actually read the Koran though. I am a bit confused by Islam though. On one hand it's easy to pick verses out of context from the Koran/Bible/etc. to try to prove a certain point. On another hand there are way more terrorist acts done by Muslims than members of other religions, and I doubt that it's just a case of their attacks getting more media coverage. |
here's the thing: lets set aside what i said. lets pretend we know nothing. dont you think that they wouldn't be out there if muhammad had said to be patient with people of other faith, and to love everybody? it has to come from somewhere right? that is why they kill in the name of allah and muhammad.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
I think the vast majority of christians and muslims alike don't feel at all comfortable with being associated with fanatics of either religion. Both Christianity and Islam preach peace and non-violence and it takes a conscious, cynical misreading or misinterpretation of the scriptures for this kind of fundamentalist hate to foment.
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for once i dont mean any offense to you, but that is just not true what you said about islam. if muhammed had his way, every non muslim would be dead. radical christians are stupid in their own right, but i dont hear them saying they want every non christian dead. they just try to convert you.
Oh i forgot, muhammed gave you a choice: convert or die. |
You need to read more. You're severely misguided. |
so would i be lying if i said that muhammad murdered thousands and thousands of people.
you are the one who is misguided, just like millions of other people.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
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No, you are incredibly wrong. Extremists have taken the words in the Qua'ran and extrapolated them far beyond their logical conclusions. They then further cherry pick certain phrases out of context and harp on them.
Read this:
http://www.alislam.org/islam/islam-p...l-religion.pdf
And I post that fully aware you will not, actually read it, troll.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
I hear a lot of people say these kinds of things about Muslims. I doubt most of them have actually read the Koran though. I am a bit confused by Islam though. On one hand it's easy to pick verses out of context from the Koran/Bible/etc. to try to prove a certain point. On another hand there are way more terrorist acts done by Muslims than members of other religions, and I doubt that it's just a case of their attacks getting more media coverage.
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here's the thing: lets set aside what i said. lets pretend we know nothing. dont you think that they wouldn't be out there if muhammad had said to be patient with people of other faith, and to love everybody? it has to come from somewhere right? that is why they kill in the name of allah and muhammad. |
I don't really understand what this paragraph means exactly. What do you mean set it all aside and pretend we know nothing? I'm not following. In the latter part are you saying that Muhammad instructed all Muslims to kill people who don't share their beliefs? I don't think you are qualified to make that statement as you have already admitted your ignorance of the Koran. Now I don't think I'm an authority on the subject either as I haven't read the book, but I do try to maintain a fair viewpoint.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Jack Sawyer
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any type of fanaticism will lead to this shit, specially of religious kind
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will641
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
No, you are incredibly wrong. Extremists have taken the words in the Qua'ran and extrapolated them far beyond their logical conclusions. They then further cherry pick certain phrases out of context and harp on them.
Read this:
http://www.alislam.org/islam/islam-p...l-religion.pdf
And I post that fully aware you will not, actually read it, troll. |
i dont know how to put this other than, WHAT A LOAD OF HORSE SHIT! this is what i was saying, i trust an unbiased source than yours. listen, i am done arguing with you, because you are a clown, you are an anti-american terrorist sympathizer, and i dont give a shit about your opinion.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
I hear a lot of people say these kinds of things about Muslims. I doubt most of them have actually read the Koran though. I am a bit confused by Islam though. On one hand it's easy to pick verses out of context from the Koran/Bible/etc. to try to prove a certain point. On another hand there are way more terrorist acts done by Muslims than members of other religions, and I doubt that it's just a case of their attacks getting more media coverage.
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here's the thing: lets set aside what i said. lets pretend we know nothing. dont you think that they wouldn't be out there if muhammad had said to be patient with people of other faith, and to love everybody? it has to come from somewhere right? that is why they kill in the name of allah and muhammad. |
I don't really understand what this paragraph means exactly. What do you mean set it all aside and pretend we know nothing? I'm not following. In the latter part are you saying that Muhammad instructed all Muslims to kill people who don't share their beliefs? I don't think you are qualified to make that statement as you have already admitted your ignorance of the Koran. Now I don't think I'm an authority on the subject either as I haven't read the book, but I do try to maintain a fair viewpoint. |
here is a book review of what i was talking about.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013019.php
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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Ash256
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
for once i dont mean any offense to you, but that is just not true what you said about islam. if muhammed had his way, every non muslim would be dead.
Oh i forgot, muhammed gave you a choice: convert or die.
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Have you read the Qur'an? |
I hear a lot of people say these kinds of things about Muslims. I doubt most of them have actually read the Koran though. I am a bit confused by Islam though. On one hand it's easy to pick verses out of context from the Koran/Bible/etc. to try to prove a certain point. On another hand there are way more terrorist acts done by Muslims than members of other religions, and I doubt that it's just a case of their attacks getting more media coverage. |
Strongly agree with part 1, part 2 though:
"On another hand there are way more terrorist acts done by Muslims than members of other religions, and I doubt that it's just a case of their attacks getting more media coverage."
What about the Christian crusades where the Catholic Church massacred people who they believed to be heretics in the name of God?
One could say that it's Islam's turn.
Also, according to will's logic, Jesus must've told the Christians to carry out the crusades in the Bible someplace, right?
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
for once i dont mean any offense to you, but that is just not true what you said about islam. if muhammed had his way, every non muslim would be dead.
Oh i forgot, muhammed gave you a choice: convert or die.
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Have you read the Qur'an? |
I hear a lot of people say these kinds of things about Muslims. I doubt most of them have actually read the Koran though. I am a bit confused by Islam though. On one hand it's easy to pick verses out of context from the Koran/Bible/etc. to try to prove a certain point. On another hand there are way more terrorist acts done by Muslims than members of other religions, and I doubt that it's just a case of their attacks getting more media coverage. |
Strongly agree with part 1, part 2 though:
"On another hand there are way more terrorist acts done by Muslims than members of other religions, and I doubt that it's just a case of their attacks getting more media coverage."
What about the Christian crusades where the Catholic Church massacred people who they believed to be heretics in the name of God?
One could say that it's Islam's turn.
Also, according to will's logic, Jesus must've told the Christians to carry out the crusades in the Bible someplace, right? |
how could he have ordered the crusades? they occurred 1100 years later? apples and oranges my friend.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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martindcx1e
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
how could he have ordered the crusades? they occurred 1100 years later? apples and oranges my friend.
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lol muhammad has been dead for quite some time and yet he somehow ordered last week's suicide bomber?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
i dont know how to put this other than, WHAT A LOAD OF HORSE SHIT! this is what i was saying, i trust an unbiased source than yours. listen, i am done arguing with you, because you are a clown, you are an anti-american terrorist sympathizer, and i dont give a shit about your opinion.
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will, you should watch your tone. posts like this don't do anyone any good and they def. don't help ppl to be more receptive to your way of thinking. are you a troll or what?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Jack Sawyer
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Will641, your thinking is dangerous.
Its obvious that those extremist terrorist leaders take whatever part they want to follow in the Q'ran, misinterpret it, and get people to follow them because of Allah's glory. This is how terrorist recruiting happens, which combined with all sorts of deplorable social situations leads to such a high success rate.
The Islam is not the only religion with extremists. There are extremist Christians, Jews, and pretty much any other religion you can find. See Christiane Amanpour's "God's Warrior's" for more info, it aired on CNN you should be able to get it somewhere.
And please, don't attack Euphoricism. He's right on on this subject.
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
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Jack Sawyer
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Also, people will voluntarily follow all sorts of bullshit movements. All you need is the right social triggers. Do a wikipedia search on David Koresh, or Adolf Hitler, for good examples on that.
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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it has been noted martin, appologies to eupho. it is a subject i take very seriously and feel very strongly about, and it really pisses me off when people insult my intelligence. just to clarify i was saying the article is horse shit, in case people interpreted it as me saying eupho was horse shit.
On another note, I am tired of talking about this. Eupho, you have your opinion, I have mine, and its a waste of time talking about it with each other any more, because i am unwilling to listen to you and you are unwilling to listen to anything i have to say.
Agree to disagree? And no hard feelings?
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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@ will641 & mart, I trainwrecked my post.. I hope you understand that I was comparing will's P.O.V about Muhammad with Jesus and the crusades.
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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I'm a shemale, not a troll.
wheeeeeeeeeeeee
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Lets just stay away from political/religious posts for awhile these have really got out of control.
The reason I have a problem with these people is because they are encouraging violence and i don't wish anyone to die or get hurt.
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Alibi
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Paul or DC
Posts: 449
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NOTHING TO SEE HERE
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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will, robert spencer is not an unbiased author. he clearly has an agenda and is doing his best to push it.
he is extremely wrong on many counts. he says in an interview that most muslims hate america. this isn't true. many muslims hate american foreign policy, but can you blame them. many in Iran actually embrace western (even american) ideals and products. They even had a democracy once (guess what happened to it. right wing idealogues like your boy spencer)
all of the muslims jihadists that he talks about constantly are actually breaking muslim law by acting as they do. Jihad has very specific rules about who can declare one, for what reason, and what can be done in carrying out a jihad. none of these laws are followed by the people he talks about.
I was going to go through and list all of the ways that he is wrong, but the list is just way too long. He is a crackpot right wing writer.
even if you don't believe that, please don't go around believing that he is unbiased. he is not.
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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Will641 you are observations on Muslim are only consistent on a small percentage of the Muslim population. Its the part of the religion that the media is publicizing because no one cares about normal Muslims going about their life.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
Will641 you are observations on Muslim are only consistent on a small percentage of the Muslim population. Its the part of the religion that the media is publicizing because no one cares about normal Muslims going about their life.
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i agree with you. i dont really give a shit about non radicals though. they dont piss me off and try to destroy people who are not muslim.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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Sprayed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: GO BUCKS!
Posts: 3,057
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Not to add fuel to the fire. But..........
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa...ars/index.html
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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yeah thats what you get for letting 7 year olds run a muck naming their teddy bears.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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X, I want my ftr name to be Muhammad
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LOL OPERATIONS
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05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
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