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  1. #1
    Roid_Rage's Avatar
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    Default The Unofficial But Kind of Official US Pawliticks Thread

    So after reading some gang abuse on kfaess in another thread and having really no clue what's going on in the US at the moment except for what CNN/Fox News spit out at me I'd like to get a discussion started on the current events in US politics and what led up to them.

    Basically, I'm looking for some links to some unbiased (as much as possible when it comes to politics) news reporting agencies and possibly a background of what's going on and how we got to this point.

    I'm sick of being in the dark about this kind of stuff and I'd like to be more aware of the world I live in.
  2. #2
    Roid_Rage's Avatar
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    To kick things off, how the fuck did we get 4 months into 2011 without having a budget planned out for this year. This seems horribly short sighted on Congress's part and seems like it could be easily avoided by, oh idk... planning ahead by 2-3 years? And that's at a minimum. I mean, obviously they wouldn't be able to account for everything 2-3+ years in advance, but they could at least have some groundwork laid down so something like this doesn't happen.

    I mean it just seems so ridiculous that we got to this point and I don't understand how more people aren't pissed off about this. Granted, I don't know what will happen/has happened as a result of this, but that's fucking atrocious that they can't even settle a budget.
  3. #3
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    Cross referencing this from the documentaries to watch thread.
    YouTube - The American Dream By The Provocateur Network

    Not to sound like a doomsayer or anything. But after reading some things and taking some classes (currently in one) that talk about the current state of media/US/the world. It's hard to feel very good about the future of our country or even the planet. Obviously, everything I am saying can be taken with a grain of salt but the fact remains that there's some seriously fucked up stuff going on.

    The US media is seemingly controlled almost entirely by only a few massive corporations and elite people. People are so fucking lazy when it comes to trying to find the truth that they just eat what fox news or whatever the "democratic" equivalent decides to feed them. Unfortunately, if you read Noam Chomsky's "Propaganda Model" it becomes pretty clear how the so called "liberal" media is no more than a front put up by the extremely conservative backers and informants of every large news conglomerate. Why? Because the more prominent and powerful the sources the more "reliable" they are to quote. For example, there is a correspondent stationed at the White House who gets the inside scoop directly from there but if he ever prints something critical of what goes on there the White House can shut off access and BAM! he's out of a nice comfortable, high-paying job.
    /rant

    Secondly, why the fuck are we still fully entrenched in the middle east militarily? Wasn't Obama supposed to get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan and that region in general entirely by like halfway through his first term? Wait... didn't we just declare war on Libya? Then, like Dustin said all the financial stuff Obama promised seems to have been swept under the rug to further benefit the rich and powerful.

    Speaking of the military. It currently has an estimated budget of something like over 630 billion dollars a year. The second highest? China with 1/6th the expenditures. We spend about as much on the military as pretty much the rest of the world in its entirety. Not to mention the failing projects of the F-35 and F-22 that continually gobble up billions of dollars a year with little or no progress.

    Sigh....
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Roid_Rage View Post
    To kick things off, how the fuck did we get 4 months into 2011 without having a budget planned out for this year. This seems horribly short sighted on Congress's part and seems like it could be easily avoided by, oh idk... planning ahead by 2-3 years? And that's at a minimum. I mean, obviously they wouldn't be able to account for everything 2-3+ years in advance, but they could at least have some groundwork laid down so something like this doesn't happen.

    I mean it just seems so ridiculous that we got to this point and I don't understand how more people aren't pissed off about this. Granted, I don't know what will happen/has happened as a result of this, but that's fucking atrocious that they can't even settle a budget.
    It's not really the fault of Congress, but of the voters.

    I'll try to make it brief

    It all began with Nixon and the Southern Strategy. The GOP's entire political paradigm became about garnering and perpetuating racism of the South and white people. Over the decades, this has evolved into general bigotry, xenophobia, and religious fundamentalism, as well as it's the veil over which the corporations co-opted the party. For example, they get people to vote GOP based on fundamentalist views on guns or abortion, then they use the power they get to further push economic libertarianism and corruption.

    This strategy, as well as the cascading effects of big money pushing its way into politics has shifted the spectrum further to the right. The militant vehemence of the right-wing fundamentalism has made Congress more incompetent, not because it elects stupid people (these people are actually very smart), but because the voter base from whence the politicians are elected are insane and made crazy demands that fuck everything up

    Gridlock has become par for the course. The Tea Party actually wants the government to shut down. They want Obama and the Democrats to lose at ALL costs. The progressives in the Democratic Party are not so fucking stupid. This creates a dynamic where Obama doesn't have as much bargaining power as Boehner since if Obama moves to the right, he doesn't get beat up by his base, but if Boehner doesn't try to eviscerate the Democrats he gets beat up by his base. However, the Chamber of Commerce said they want a budget deal, and since they completely dictate GOP economic policy, a deal would have no choice but to be made. It gets pushed to the last minute because that's crafty bargaining and it helps keep the Tea Party from sharpening their blades on the GOP establishment.



    I don't wanna say much about Obama because he pisses me off. Not for the retarded reasons that nut cases have, but because he's more right-wing than any president of our lifetime. The GOP demands 32 billion in cuts, and he gives them 38. His strategy is fucking retarded. I can't wait until the Democrats are able to elect a warrior who doesn't put up with the shit from the chimps who vote on emotion. Not sure it will ever happen though because fund-raising comes from mega-corporations, and they ultimately dictate what the politicians do. It creates a sort of "good cop, bad cop" dynamic. We need to get corporations out of politics, but that won't happen.

    I think the solution to the cancer that is American corporatocracy is to leave the country and join a nation that cares about its citizens. As long as the US has a stranglehold on the rest of the world and is the hub of corporatism, our politics will not change. A populist uprising will just get drowned by the uber wealthy using a fraction of their tax cuts to propagandize and co-opt the uprising

    An extremely important fact: Russ Feingold was one of the most established Senators we had, and easily one of the best in all history. He was the ONLY Senator to vote against the Patriot Act its first time around, for example. He hailed from the original progressive state, Wisconsin, yet got his ass handed to him in 2010. How? Because the billionaire Koch brothers gave his opponent mountains of cash. If even the most honest, established, and populous of politicians can get beaten by corporate cash, what chance do we stand? There is a little hope in that after Koch-funded Wisconsin governor Walker tried to destroy the unions, the people are fighting back and talking about a recall. If, and it's an enormous "if", a recall happened then we would have probably the biggest progressive victory in decades, and it would be a huge wakeup call. It would show that even billionaires can't defeat the American people. On the flip side, it won't happen because voters have dreadful attention spans, and the unions are still losing in a "two steps back, one step forward" kind of way

    Another important point is that swing-voters and new voters cast their ballots based on how good or bad their situation is and which candidate/party is/isn't currently in power. If the economy stayed in the ditch for ten election cycles, all you would see on a macro scale is every two-four years, incumbents getting voted out. Humans are chimps with longer gestation. We don't know WTF we're doing with politics, so we vote on completely retarded criteria that opens us up to the easiest of exploitation, and thus an "incompetent" Congress.

    All I can say is, politics is important. Pay attention to who says what, why, their history, and who pays them, then vote/donate/volunteer accordingly. We are in the beginnings of a progressive movement, BTW. The internet and shifting demographics are very slowly marginalizing the old, white, uneducated fundamentalists who have a noose around the neck of the nation's policy


    As far as sources go. Browse Huffington Post for basic news, read ThinkProgress for more in depth and important topics, and watch The Young Turks for the best and most unbiased analysis available. Something I like to do is find an active science/skeptic forum with a politics subforum. That is probably the best way to get news and opinion as you end up getting more honesty, originality, and actual facts than from journalism. For example: the main board I use has several nuclear and chemical specialists/enthusiasts who provide a much more informed perspective of the Fukushima reactor than any of the garbage on literally any media I've seen. Even my favorite Young Turks have gotten way too much wrong on Fukushima and nuclear in general. Cenk is awesome on US politics and policy though.
  5. #5
    Vinland's Avatar
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    Could be wrong Roid (cuz i'm not american) but your budget might nor be for a calendar year. It might be a fiscal year, which could start in Apr, may, june etc....

    And it isnt atrocious that they cant agree on a budget, its very predictable. Our country is in the midst of its 3rd election in 7 yrs b/c the governments couldnt agree on a budget. What each side wants to spend on is often at the very heart of the differences btwn parties.
    One wants to take my money and give it to groups they call poor to improve quality of life, the other wants to give it to businesses to improve job creation for the poor.

    And Donachello? no you didnt declare war on Libya.....the US doesnt do that any more....a simple UN declaration is all you need (and Canada too for that matter).

    For you in the U.S. just google Ron Paul, he'll explain it to you. A pretty straight shooter from the looks of it and he doesnt favour any one side (the people or business) or condone government intrusion on your life.
    I won't believe their lies - I can still see through these eyes
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Donachello View Post
    The US media is seemingly controlled almost entirely by only a few massive corporations and elite people. People are so fucking lazy when it comes to trying to find the truth that they just eat what fox news or whatever the "democratic" equivalent decides to feed them. Unfortunately, if you read Noam Chomsky's "Propaganda Model" it becomes pretty clear how the so called "liberal" media is no more than a front put up by the extremely conservative backers and informants of every large news conglomerate. Why? Because the more prominent and powerful the sources the more "reliable" they are to quote. For example, there is a correspondent stationed at the White House who gets the inside scoop directly from there but if he ever prints something critical of what goes on there the White House can shut off access and BAM! he's out of a nice comfortable, high-paying job.
    /rant
    Excellent post, I'm almost a little surprised since many people don't get this.

    Corporate media is a giant piece of shit. It's all based on access, profit, and even corporatocracy. MSNBC has pockets of good stuff, but they still have a ton of shit. They're about 80% tabloid, 20% focusing on things that matter. I watch Cenk Uygur daily because he's our generation's Edward Murrow, but Maddow is good as well, and two of their others are decent at times, but that's it

    Get your media from the internet. Bloggers or small shows. There is a lot of great stuff out there, it's rapidly growing in great popularity, but it ain't corporate

    Secondly, why the fuck are we still fully entrenched in the middle east militarily? Wasn't Obama supposed to get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan and that region in general entirely by like halfway through his first term? Wait... didn't we just declare war on Libya? Then, like Dustin said all the financial stuff Obama promised seems to have been swept under the rug to further benefit the rich and powerful.

    Speaking of the military. It currently has an estimated budget of something like over 630 billion dollars a year. The second highest? China with 1/6th the expenditures. We spend about as much on the military as pretty much the rest of the world in its entirety. Not to mention the failing projects of the F-35 and F-22 that continually gobble up billions of dollars a year with little or no progress.
    This seems to be the Democratic Party way. Campaign as a progressive, govern as a Republican. Granted, the military is the most entrenched, politically powerful, and corrupt entity on the entire planet. Obama would be more successful taking down the banks than the military/industrial complex. Also, he doesn't want to because it's mainly for oil, and the best way for him to gut his presidency is to get on the bad side of oil. As well as, the enormous US military is a "pre-emptive Cold War". If we dropped our military funding to the levels of the second largest nation, we would experience a lot of oil volatility and would end up engaging in another Cold War, but this time with China instead of Russia

    The financial stuff is tough to swallow because the banks are the biggest political donors. That considered, Obama has done well here IMO. He has to do what he can to make sure the banks remain one of his primary donors, but he also has stood some solid ground by creating the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau currently headed by Liz Warren. Also, a lot of the issues with banking aren't actual issues. The real issues were with Bush Administration corruption, not financial innovation with things like derivatives. The Bush Admin fired nearly everybody at the SEC so there were no cops on the beat. They also allowed the Fed to keep interest rates terribly low in order to bubble housing. Simply having a non-corrupt politician in POTUS during Bush's reign would have been enough to kill the whole mess
  7. #7
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    In the eight days leading up to the vote Friday night alone, our national debt rose by $54 billion.
    Cafferty File: Tell Jack how you really feel Blog Archive - Threat of govt shutdown cut $38B: How will serious deficit reduction ever be accomplished? « - CNN.com Blogs

    I very rarely talk politics, but I thought this would be worth mentioning.


    Prizes include a rap battle with spoonitnow
  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinland View Post
    Could be wrong Roid (cuz i'm not american) but your budget might nor be for a calendar year. It might be a fiscal year, which could start in Apr, may, june etc....

    And it isnt atrocious that they cant agree on a budget, its very predictable. Our country is in the midst of its 3rd election in 7 yrs b/c the governments couldnt agree on a budget. What each side wants to spend on is often at the very heart of the differences btwn parties.
    One wants to take my money and give it to groups they call poor to improve quality of life, the other wants to give it to businesses to improve job creation for the poor.

    And Donachello? no you didnt declare war on Libya.....the US doesnt do that any more....a simple UN declaration is all you need (and Canada too for that matter).

    For you in the U.S. just google Ron Paul, he'll explain it to you. A pretty straight shooter from the looks of it and he doesnt favour any one side (the people or business) or condone government intrusion on your life.
    Paul is a wolf in sheep's clothing. An unwitting wolf, and not a sheep to many, though

    Economic libertarianism is a wet dream for the uber wealthy and mega-corporatism. The idea that government intervention is the problem is nothing but a myth perpetuated by the very people who push totalitarianism. Economics is about who controls production/resources/wealth and how it's distributed to whom. Some form of government is an indistinguishable facet of society itself, be it socialistic (for the people, by the people) or totalitarian (any form of private/special entities with vast control like monarchy or corporatocracy/libertarianism)
  9. #9
    Hey just move to Canada, right now the biggest issue in the current federal election is about whether the government should have decided to use taxpayer money to pay for an NHL arena in Quebec City.

    They didn't, btw.

    Politics moar simpool hear I guess.
  10. #10
    mbiz's Avatar
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    Watch the PBS news hour. Best news program in the world and highly political (and its american!).

    Read the economist
    economist.com


    Both are super interesting (albeit sometimes very dry) news sources.
  11. #11
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    Canada: We postpone political debates because the Habs are playing at 7.
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    Wufwugy with a winning post btw. You drink that tiger's blood, sir.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    Canada: We postpone political debates because the Habs are playing at 7.
    mother fucking fact

    GO HABS GO
  15. #15
  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I'll try to make it brief

    <wall of text>
  17. #17
    Monty3038's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    Canada: We postpone political debates because the Habs are playing at 7.
    Who the fuck are the habs?
  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monty3038 View Post
    Who the fuck are the habs?
    Just Fucking Google It
    LOL OPERATIONS
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  20. #20
    Monty3038's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post

    Get your media from the internet. Bloggers or small shows. There is a lot of great stuff out there, it's rapidly growing in great popularity, but it ain't corporate
    Take with a grain of salt what you hear though on the Internet... remember... no one is vetting their sources either... so everyone can do whatever they want there... sometimes it is a bigger load of crap than the corporate news outlets.
  21. #21
    bigred's Avatar
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    sigh...Montreal Canadians...aka Les Habitantes...Habs
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty3038 View Post
    Take with a grain of salt what you hear though on the Internet... remember... no one is vetting their sources either... so everyone can do whatever they want there... sometimes it is a bigger load of crap than the corporate news outlets.
    Yeah you don't want to just listen to whatever you hear. I'm talking about internet/small business journo. TV and mega news don't have journalism anymore, it's shifted to the web. Yes there is crap out there, but if you want to find journalism like we used to have, you have to go the net.

    Never trust a source that isn't allowed to say "fuck" or "maybe dropping bombs on poor brown people isn't what heroism is made of"
  23. #23
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    So do we have suggestions for good blogs and what not?

    I don't keep up with political blogs so I can only suggest this kid named Nate Silver, Nate Silver - FiveThirtyEight Blog - NYTimes.com

    He's pretty great. He tends to be good and slicing off the bias.
  24. #24
    Nate used to be a 2p2er. 538 is a special blog inasmuch as it provides something that has never existed before. They give the most statistically sound analysis of politics. They don't really say much about policy, but looking a the politics of the matter and how it affects other politics of the matter. They're basically like a super duper pollster

    I tend to only read 538 during election time, though

    I spend the vast majority of my time reading commentary on journo, not journo itself. I've found that I'm great at filtering things well when I do that. Over the years I've found that Cenk Uygur is an awesome source for commentary (much better than I would have hoped for, honestly), and he puts out a ton of info so I tend to not spend much time on other sources.

    For econ, I like Robert Reich, Paul Krugman, and Richard Wolff blogs. Reich is baller for anything related to econ in popular media, Krugman usually hits on key points from deeper in the econ/business field, and Wolff spends a lot of time on econ philosophy through a socialist lens

    For other political issues, names I like are Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald, David Sirota, Ezra Klein. There is a toonnnn of info on the net though. I'm subbed or marked to a lot of stuff I never look at, yet is generally great sourcing
  25. #25
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    The Real Housewives of Wall Street | Rolling Stone Politics

    I seem to also have the sense of Rolling Stone putting out some really good articles in recent memory. This one is a quick and good read.
  26. #26
  27. #27
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    Pandemonium! Dems Jam Republicans With Even More Conservative Budget | TPMDC

    This seems like awesome has occurred on the House floor.
  28. #28
  29. #29
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    Krug sounds like someone who would be an expert on economics because the only way a voice like his would ever be heard is by the knowledge of his words.
  30. #30
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    3. Internet Privacy and Personal Access at Risk | Project Censored

    For those of you who haven't heard of project censored I highly recommend checking it out.
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

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  31. #31
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    Does anyone in here know of any good literature on modern energy over-consumption? The more I read about fossil fuel consumption and non-renewable energy sources, the more it seems like the world is steaming towards some sort of catastrophic energy shortage...Am I wrong here? I don't want to be one of those people who doesn't think and doesn't care and is then shocked when gas is $10/gallon in two years, and we simply have none in 25.
    Ich grolle nicht...
  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Illfavor View Post
    Does anyone in here know of any good literature on modern energy over-consumption? The more I read about fossil fuel consumption and non-renewable energy sources, the more it seems like the world is steaming towards some sort of catastrophic energy shortage...Am I wrong here? I don't want to be one of those people who doesn't think and doesn't care and is then shocked when gas is $10/gallon in two years, and we simply have none in 25.
    I don't read published material, just stick to blogs, lectures, and discussions. So I don't have any recommendations

    But to put it in a nutshell: it's not about quantity, but about rate and pricing. There's loads of oil out there, we won't run out of it in our lifetimes, but rate of production can only get so high (we only have a few percentage points of potential production increases beyond current), and increased pricing is mainly about increase in demand of emerging economies i.e. India wants more oil so the prices of all oil go up.

    US is extremely energy inefficient. All we need to do is pressure our society to push towards urbanization, cheaper transit, computerization, and increasing efficiency, and we'll be fine. Peak oil is a problem of pricing that is somewhat self-regulating. The real bad boy is global warming. It won't be killer for us, but will be for our great grandkids.

    I guess what I'm saying is that US assumes that wasting energy is what should be normal, but really we're just having to return to a time before the US flushed energy down the toilet. It's not going to run out, but it will never again be cheap either.
  33. #33
    Miffed22001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donachello View Post
    3. Internet Privacy and Personal Access at Risk | Project Censored

    For those of you who haven't heard of project censored I highly recommend checking it out.
    is this not like the some old story i read where if you send 2 emails to yourself from another account one with 'Hello' in it and the other with 'Bomb' in it and send the bomb one first the Hello one actually arrives first at the other end?

    This project seems like madness - why is it not more well known? Id hate freedoms being ignored like that.

    While im not American, i dont like the idea that someone can either spy on me without legal approval or arrest me on say terrorist charges and hold me almost indefinetly (i know those are broad overviews) but surely being spied on would be better than being arrested.

    Surely the reason in a Democracy that the Govt must be able to be sued by an individual is because the legal and politcal arms of govt are seperate and therefore the Govt is answerable to the law too
    Last edited by Miffed22001; 05-06-2011 at 11:20 AM.
  34. #34
    Monty3038's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    There's loads of oil out there, we won't run out of it in our lifetimes, but rate of production can only get so high (we only have a few percentage points of potential production increases beyond current), and increased pricing is mainly about increase in demand of emerging economies i.e. India wants more oil so the prices of all oil go up.
    Is the current issue the rate of production or the rate of refining? At least in the US?
  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post

    Well, guess that means I can't have that new house in they hamptons... or California... and Florida... Geeves, call the construction company and cancel my new properties, we'll hunker down here and stop investing for a while due to this new burden....
  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I spend the vast majority of my time reading commentary on journo, not journo itself. I've found that I'm great at filtering things well when I do that. Over the years I've found that Cenk Uygur is an awesome source for commentary (much better than I would have hoped for, honestly), and he puts out a ton of info so I tend to not spend much time on other sources.

    For econ, I like Robert Reich, Paul Krugman, and Richard Wolff blogs. Reich is baller for anything related to econ in popular media, Krugman usually hits on key points from deeper in the econ/business field, and Wolff spends a lot of time on econ philosophy through a socialist lens

    For other political issues, names I like are Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald, David Sirota, Ezra Klein. There is a toonnnn of info on the net though. I'm subbed or marked to a lot of stuff I never look at, yet is generally great sourcing
    I'm taking a look at a few of these, on the Cenk Uygur stuff, do you focus on the clips or the blog?
  37. #37
    Never been in this thread. Thought it was about puppies based on the title. I'm pretty angry now but I'll take it to the other thread.
  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty3038 View Post
    I'm taking a look at a few of these, on the Cenk Uygur stuff, do you focus on the clips or the blog?
    I watch his daily show, and his MSNBC show now that he's on there. On MSNBC, he kinda does and doesn't have a show. It's like he's a really popular temp so they've given him a sorta permanent but indefinite show. He's in a good spot where his TYT brand is growing so well that viewership may eventually surpass any cable news, so he doesn't have to sell out. His TYT show is better than the MSNBC one though because it's unscripted and more raw and they do an excellent job with that. The MSNBC one does get some great material with guests though. They used to do tons of guests on TYT, but they moved that stuff to MSNBC. FWIW, Cenk's mission statement is something along the lines "present a pro-populous agenda with as much strength at you can". My guess is that's the main reason he does MSNBC. He doesn't need it for his excellent TYT business, but cable news calls the shots on political discourse. Just some small examples examples, Shirley Sherrod was fired because of Glenn Beck, and 9/11 first responders got health care because of Jon Stewart

    As to what to look at with Cenk's stuff, I'm not sure it matters. Just get a few little doses of anything that looks cool. Probably watch a full 2 hour TYT show at some point. I do it live, but they do itunes downloads and the site continually runs streams. It is by far the best political show I've seen, but it might take some getting used to because it's different than any TV news show

    Is the current issue the rate of production or the rate of refining? At least in the US?
    Extraction. And US doesn't really matter when it comes to production and pricing and all that because the market is global. Don't be fooled by the rhetoric coming from politicians and media paid by the oil lobby. Doing things like drilling in ANWR and off shore change pricing by mere pennies, and it's not "US oil", it's privately owned mulitnational corporate oil sold on the global market
  39. #39
  40. #40
    Roid_Rage's Avatar
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    I'll take #24.
    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    cock sauce and anything asian is great
  41. #41
  42. #42
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    My first contribution to the pawliticks thread is, oddly enough, about sports.

    Bill Maher on the NFL & MLB
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    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...



    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
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  43. #43
    Shotglass's Avatar
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    Let's solve it, a non-partisan request

    “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is
    an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests”.

    - Patrick Henry -



    Congressional Reform Act of 2011

    1. No Tenure / No Pension.
    A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.

    2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.
    All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

    3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

    4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

    5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

    6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

    7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/01/12.

    The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.

    If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive the message. Maybe it is time.

    THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!!!!!
  44. #44
    This is like telling bears they shouldn't eat so much meat.
  45. #45
    I believe the political fix has to do with declassifying corporate human status
  46. #46
    Of course that's your contention. You're a wufwugy; you just got finished reading some Marxian historian, Pete Garrison probably. You're gonna be convinced of that 'till next month when you get to James Lemon. Then you're going to be talking about how the economies of Virginia and Pennsylvania were entrepreneurial and capitalist way back in 1740. That's gonna last until next year; you're gonna be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood, talkin' about, you know, the pre-revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization.
  47. #47
    At least I won't be reading Ayn
  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue View Post
    Of course that's your contention. You're a wufwugy; you just got finished reading some Marxian historian, Pete Garrison probably. You're gonna be convinced of that 'till next month when you get to James Lemon. Then you're going to be talking about how the economies of Virginia and Pennsylvania were entrepreneurial and capitalist way back in 1740. That's gonna last until next year; you're gonna be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood, talkin' about, you know, the pre-revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization.
    Meh quality sucks but....

    YouTube - &#x202a;Whats ya maja dude&#x202c;&rlm;
    LOL OPERATIONS
  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue View Post
    Of course that's your contention. You're a wufwugy; you just got finished reading some Marxian historian, Pete Garrison probably. You're gonna be convinced of that 'till next month when you get to James Lemon. Then you're going to be talking about how the economies of Virginia and Pennsylvania were entrepreneurial and capitalist way back in 1740. That's gonna last until next year; you're gonna be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood, talkin' about, you know, the pre-revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization.
    Epic.

    Oh, btw... do you like apples?
  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    Gahden Wood...beautiful
  51. #51
  52. #52
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    A Liberal Reads the Great Conservative Works - Carl T. Bogus - National Review Online

    Q. After having completed an extensive program of reading great conservative works, how can you still be a liberal?

    A. As Isaiah Berlin pointed out, what separates us at the most fundamental level may be our different conceptions of liberty. Conservatives value above all else what Berlin called the negative vision of liberty, namely, freedom from coercion. Liberals are more willing to balance that against the positive vision of liberty — that is, having a reasonable opportunity to realize one’s potential. The negative vision focuses conservatives on restricting the government’s ability to interfere in people’s lives. The positive vision leads liberals to believe that government has a role in guaranteeing baseline minimums in education, medical care, and healthy communities. Most of us probably accept both visions to some extent, but how we balance the two may be built into our DNA. It is not to be expected, therefore, that a liberal will be converted by reading the great works of conservatism, or vice versa. But there are rewards to be gained from doing so nonetheless. Often, we get a better understanding of what we believe by reading about a philosophy with which we have disagreements than by reading congenial literature. More important, reading its great works helps us better understand — and respect — the other side. That, at least, has been my experience.
    Worth the quick read.
  53. #53
    Any anti-government ideology is at least partially whack. It's an inherent contradiction, like somebody arguing against society. Motherfucker you can't argue against society, only certain kinds of societies. Society is an inseparable factor of human interaction, likewise government.
  54. #54
    The USA seems to have very strong, deep-rooted anti-government sentiments, which always puzzled me because those who hate the government the most, are usually the loudest to claim that america is the greatest country in the world.

    If your country is so great, why can't you come up with suitable governance?
  55. #55
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    The USA seems to have very strong, deep-rooted anti-government sentiments, which always puzzled me because those who hate the government the most, are usually the loudest to claim that america is the greatest country in the world.

    If your country is so great, why can't you come up with suitable governance?
    More so than other counties, the USA has a prevalent attitude of do it yourself. Any big government cuts against that. Not everyone in the USA believes that, but it's probably as accurate as saying the other end of the spectrum, the French, consider their government the collective French effort. In the USA, the first inclination would be towards the American people resolving needs while in France it would be towards the French government resolving needs.

    We haven't come up with a suitable governance now?
  56. #56
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    &#x202a;DA: Switch-side debate causes lawyers, U.S. Congress, and Neil deGrasse Tyson hypertension&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube

    NdGT nails it. Debate, discussion, rhetoric, dialectic fundamentally can not and do not demonstrate or reveal the truth. Too many people that have a skill of picking a side and going to war to show that they're righter than the other guys call themselves politicians.
    Last edited by a500lbgorilla; 08-07-2011 at 12:01 PM.
  57. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    If your country is so great, why can't you come up with suitable governance?
    The primary difference between US and other modern nations is the melting pot

    Norway has great health care, great education, great middle class, great everything because they're all white Norwegians. The US, OTOH, does not have those things because the Republican Party realized that the most politically savvy move they could pull is racism. Racism is one of the most fundamental and strong aspects of inter-social behavior, but it wouldn't be a powerful tool if US was almost entirely one race with one nationality. In a way, being the world's most progressive nation is what has made us become one of the most backwards of modern nations.

    Imagine Japan if 35% of its population was non-Japanese. That shit would go up in flames, and it applies to virtually every nationality (Japan just happens to be one of the most nationalistic among us). What we have in the US is a continual fanning of flames based on the limits of the human brain to accept ethnic and national differences. It's tribalism in modernism. Republicans being lying cheats are honestly mainly a byproduct of them needing to be the racist party. It's borne of the very system
  58. #58
  59. #59
  60. #60
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    My God... what is this?

    Twitter

    Quote Originally Posted by @johhuntsman
    To be clear. I believe in evolution and trust scientists on global warming. Call me crazy.
    I must learn more about this man... This Republican man.

    He served as a Mormon missionary for two years in Taiwan and graduated from the University of Pennsylvania with a bachelor's degree in international politics.
    Oh God dammit!

    Huntsman was raised a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), and stated in a May 2011 interview with George Stephanopoulos of ABC News, "I believe in God. I'm a good Christian. I'm very proud of my Mormon heritage. I am Mormon." However, he has repeatedly deflected attention from his Mormon roots, telling the Washington Times, "These presidential nomination contests aren’t about religion; they’re about leadership."

    Moreover, he told Newsweek magazine in December 2010 that the LDS Church doesn’t have a monopoly on his spiritual life. In an interview with Time magazine, he stated that he is more spiritual than religious and that his membership in the LDS Church is "tough to define". Although still Mormon, Huntsman has said that he and his wife draw from an array of sources for inspiration...
    Oh? God damn!

    Who is this man and why should I hate him?

    edit: apparently the down-low is this: "he was governor of utah. worked well. Then obama sent him as ambassador of china. He did a good job. he is a real moderate. great candidate. he is running for 2016, he knows the party might elect a looney (i am thinking perry ) and then get creamed, regret it and choose him in 2016."

    "I live in Utah and I'm a damn dirty liberal and I thought he was a great governor. He wasn't perfect, he supported a voucher program for religious schools, but he also did some damn good things in this state."
    Last edited by a500lbgorilla; 08-18-2011 at 08:02 PM.
  61. #61
    The real story of the economy

    The Oil Drum | Oil Limits, Recession, and Bumping Against the Growth Ceiling

    Cost of energy trumps all, and it's not really even close. Correctly structuring revenue streams and oligopoly laws can only do so much.
  62. #62
    Check out the new blog!!!
  63. #63
    Bob Reich is a straight pimp

    Robert Reich: Jobs Not Cuts - YouTube
  64. #64
    Renton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan View Post

    Most of what I've seen of this guy was gop clownery, and it seems like this article eroded into an indictment of entitlements before he could talk about anything substantial. I don't know the exact statistics on unemployment, but from my direct experience with people I know, the large majority of unemployed in America right now simply can't find ANY job, its not like they are sitting on their "duff" as Moore says. To equate unemployment insurance with things like welfare and medicaid (which obviously need reforming) seems ridiculous to me.
    Last edited by Renton; 08-23-2011 at 05:06 AM.
  65. #65
    "Entitlements" for the poor are nothing in comparison to those for the extremely rich. Not to mention that running an actual healthy economy requires some level of planning
  66. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    Most of what I've seen of this guy was gop clownery, and it seems like this article eroded into an indictment of entitlements before he could talk about anything substantial. I don't know the exact statistics on unemployment, but from my direct experience with people I know, the large majority of unemployed in America right now simply can't find ANY job, its not like they are sitting on their "duff" as Moore says. To equate unemployment insurance with things like welfare and medicaid (which obviously need reforming) seems ridiculous to me.
    I don't see a lot of the things you are talking about here in this article. The only thing I see is the part about his son sitting on his duff which implies all unemployed are sitting on their duff which I think stupid. I have not read any of this guys other articles so I don't know if in general he tends to be a gop clown.
    Check out the new blog!!!
  67. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Donachello View Post
    Cross referencing this from the documentaries to watch thread.
    YouTube - The American Dream By The Provocateur Network

    Not to sound like a doomsayer or anything. But after reading some things and taking some classes (currently in one) that talk about the current state of media/US/the world. It's hard to feel very good about the future of our country or even the planet. Obviously, everything I am saying can be taken with a grain of salt but the fact remains that there's some seriously fucked up stuff going on.

    The US media is seemingly controlled almost entirely by only a few massive corporations and elite people.
    They're teaching you this crap in school? wtf
    Check out my new website covering everything Daily Fantasy! dailyfantasywinners.com

  68. #68
    Not sure how to say this in a nice way... but didn't you grow up going to schools whose curriculum was based around Transcendental Meditation?

    Furthermore, what is it that you are balking at? Is it the idea that a very small group control a startlingly high percentage of all the traditional media outlets available? Do you think it is untrue, or that it's a non issue?


    edit: ah, I'm guessing that you are probably reacting to the video, not the comment about the media. The video does seem a bit frivolous, but I'm not sure that it completely misses the mark. Also I don't think that this was actually used in the classroom, but just echos some stuff he had learned...
    Last edited by boost; 08-27-2011 at 08:55 PM.
  69. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Not sure how to say this in a nice way... but didn't you grow up going to schools whose curriculum was based around Transcendental Meditation?
    I don't get how this is relevant at all... You're also talking about my high school whereas I'm talking about his college. Did you think he was talking about high school? I don't think any sort of political discussion in high school is appropriate at all, although I'm sure it goes on which is sad.

    Anyways, what I'm balking at isn't that I think it's untrue and I do think it's an issue. What I'm balking at is that he's taking a class that's telling him it is true. I would balk just as much if he was taking a college class that told him it definitely was not true. It's irresponsible and unproductive to tell students what to think.

    If we're talking my personal opinion about this subject, I don't really have a firm stance either way. It seems plausible that the government and people with lots of money influence big media outlets but I also haven't really found enough evidence to believe it to be true.
    Check out my new website covering everything Daily Fantasy! dailyfantasywinners.com

  70. #70
    Renton's Avatar
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    It seem's like he's making his own deductions from the facts about the media he learns in class. Also its well known that mass media outlets are cesspools. It's an unavoidable situation in an industry that depends on ad revenue from relatively few sources, not to mention the fact that only a few companies run 95% of the media that the world sees. If that weren't enough, these companies are well known to be extremely political.
  71. #71
    I'm not sure how you inferred that the class is teaching him that it is true and not that it was just something touched upon in class and he has come to his own conclusions. Even if that were the case, I am not sure how you think this is wrong. Some classes should teach theory and method so to equip the students with the skills to find the truth, and others should simply teach the truth. With the skills from the former a student should be able to discern whether the information from the latter is in fact on the level. Your disdain for the latter type of class only holds water if there is actually no objective truth on a given subject. But the fact is, there is an objective truth as to whether the major media sources are controlled by a select few individuals/corporations.

    As for the TM stuff, I'm not really completely sure what difference it makes, highs school or college. But that being said, I do believe there is a university run by the same organization in your hometown-- a university which also revolves around the same teachings-- a university that offered(offers?) curriculum in levitation. I think this is plenty relevant to a discussion about the merits of the content of a college level course.

    What I'm balking at is that he's taking a class that's telling him it is true. I would balk just as much if he was taking a college class that told him it definitely was not true.
    I am just perplexed by this. You are opposed to teaching fact as fact, but would prefer professors to instead teach that facts only might be true? I mean, I guess it makes sense, after all, it could be true and it could not be true, so its a 50/50 chance either way, right?
    Last edited by boost; 08-28-2011 at 02:22 PM.
  72. #72
    Fnord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    From my direct experience with people I know, the large majority of unemployed in America right now simply can't find ANY job.
    Tech has gotten to the point where it has polarized the job market. Also government policy has been pretty hostile to the middle class.
  73. #73
    Fnord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    The real story of the economy

    The Oil Drum | Oil Limits, Recession, and Bumping Against the Growth Ceiling

    Cost of energy trumps all, and it's not really even close. Correctly structuring revenue streams and oligopoly laws can only do so much.
    This vastly under-estimates how mismanaged the government is nor the capacity of market to solve problems in unexpected ways. These guys have been predicting a global crash via a resource crunch for years.

    From the article:
    "I have talked to a couple of groups recently (one a church group; one a peak oil group), about this issue."

    Glad to hear he's reaching out to critical minds that will come up with well thought out challenges to his conclusions.
    Last edited by Fnord; 09-06-2011 at 05:13 AM.
  74. #74
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    "Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty."
    -Plato

    "God has a lot to answer for when standing before me in the last judgment."

    -E.Valtaoja

  75. #75
    I will never understand how capitalism and related ideologies are clearly extremely ineffective moral systems, yet few people see that. It's religion. Even something as simple and silly as pure egalitarianism of resource distribution beats the shit out of capitalism WRT positive results, yet few will acknowledge it

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