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The Unofficial But Kind of Official US Pawliticks Thread

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  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
    Tech has gotten to the point where it has polarized the job market.
    That's the excuse. It is very true, but it's not addressing the potential for ample employment not being tapped. Part of why we used to have high employment wasn't good policy, but low tech. Now we have higher tech, but still shitty policy. I propose we actually make good policy, and then we'll find that the job losses from tech advancements are nullified

    Also government policy has been pretty hostile to the middle class.
    You mean the government policy created by the proxy governance of corporate bribery?
  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Even something as simple and silly as pure egalitarianism of resource distribution beats the shit out of capitalism WRT positive results, yet few will acknowledge it
    How can you talk about the "positive results" of something that's never been implemented?
  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
    This vastly under-estimates how mismanaged the government is nor the capacity of market to solve problems in unexpected ways. These guys have been predicting a global crash via a resource crunch for years.

    From the article:
    "I have talked to a couple of groups recently (one a church group; one a peak oil group), about this issue."

    Glad to hear he's reaching out to critical minds that will come up with well thought out challenges to his conclusions.
    Yeah, I'm not really going to spend much time defending the Oil Drum or their interpretations, but the article is for the graphs of facts of the energy costs.

    And you're deeply, sorely mistaken if this is a problem of government policy. Most oil production has virtually no significant affectations from government policy; they're the most autonomous of industries on the planet. Besides, the numbers simply do not exist for the Invisible Hand to conjure more scalable cheap oil
  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    How can you talk about the "positive results" of something that's never been implemented?
    You're right, pure egalitarianism hasn't been implemented, and never will be. But egalitarian measures most certainly have, and they're demonstrably more efficient than capitalism

    People seem to forget that capitalism (and related theories) provokes and perpetuates immense suffering of millions (arguably billions), while egalitarian measures (often called socialism) like non-profit health care or law enforcement are responsible for alleviation of much suffering

    The profit motive as the ruler of society is incredibly destructive. People just pretend it's not by being ignorant about society itself
  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    You're right, pure egalitarianism hasn't been implemented, and never will be. But egalitarian measures most certainly have, and they're demonstrably more efficient than capitalism

    People seem to forget that capitalism (and related theories) provokes and perpetuates immense suffering of millions (arguably billions), while egalitarian measures (often called socialism) like non-profit health care or law enforcement are responsible for alleviation of much suffering

    The profit motive as the ruler of society is incredibly destructive. People just pretend it's not by being ignorant about society itself
    I don't see what's wrong with having a capitalistic society with the degree of socialism necessary to alleviate the suffering of the masses. Going to the socialist extreme is as bad as going to the capitalist extreme. Both extremes are throwing the baby out with the bathwater without acknowledging the strengths each offers.
  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    I don't see what's wrong with having a capitalistic society with the degree of socialism necessary to alleviate the suffering of the masses. Going to the socialist extreme is as bad as going to the capitalist extreme. Both extremes are throwing the baby out with the bathwater without acknowledging the strengths each offers.
    Socialism is villified; it's actually good stuff. A socialistic extreme would be a really good place, but it's arguable that a less extreme socialism that had some capitalism would be better

    People don't really know what socialism is. Family owned business and many small businesses are socialism, for example. In the real world, socialism has beaten the living fuck out of capitalism WRT results. The problem is that people look at cronyism and dictatorships like Soviets or China and call them socialism; they weren't and they aren't. Then they look at Soviets losing to US and claim it was because of economic policy; it wasn't, it was because of resource distribution and post-WW2 infrastructure health
  7. #82
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    Ran into a solid obama speech on my way to some thursday night football. He slid some shit in there at like the 75% mark that made me ask, "what does that mean?" but otherwise he did well.
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  8. #83
  9. #84
    Zero percent chance Obama gets reelected BTW. Romney/Rubio ticket will take Florida, game over. The fact that this uber socialist liberal partially doesn't want Obama to win is the other reason it's game over. It's hard to support Obama when his platform is basically "When the GOP is in office, they fuck you without lube. I'll bring lube. Obama 2012!!"
  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Zero percent chance Obama gets reelected BTW. Romney/Rubio ticket will take Florida, game over. The fact that this uber socialist liberal partially doesn't want Obama to win is the other reason it's game over. It's hard to support Obama when his platform is basically "When the GOP is in office, they fuck you without lube. I'll bring lube. Obama 2012!!"
    I'll give you 50%. 20 bucks is my standard but since we can't just pass money I'll bet some item ~20 bucks in value from amazon or some such - loser buys and ships to winner.

    I'd say Obama is a measure over 50% to win re-election.

    I've got it. Loser buys a book for the winner. Ships it to his residence. Any book of the loser's choice. I've got Obama, you've got the field.
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  11. #86
    hmmm id have to think on that because I think the real line on Obama winning at this juncture could possibly be like 4:1. I just make highly bold predictions
  12. #87
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    In case of Republican presidency, you'd have some good reading material.
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  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    In case of Republican presidency, you'd have some good reading material.
    like this?

  14. #89
    How, in a country of 300M, can the Republicans not find the combination of smarts and charisma/engaging presence that you need as a Presidential candidate?

    They're all crazy or wet cardboard.
  15. #90
  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue View Post
    How, in a country of 300M, can the Republicans not find the combination of smarts and charisma/engaging presence that you need as a Presidential candidate?

    They're all crazy or wet cardboard.
    Maybe that's what selling your soul does. It's not like politicians believe the shit they sell. It takes a special kind of robot to hurt people, blame it on somebody else, console the people they hurt, then hurt them again
  17. #92
  18. #93
  19. #94
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    So you know how political cartoons depicting Liberals as Predators hunting with a heat-vision that sees only the glow of success on a person aren't conducive to any aspect of the political game? Those cartoons suck in an equal but opposite way.
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  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    like this?

    For having learned so much about cooking, surely you should know that cooking does not come from the cookbook. It comes from the soul. And Amazon doesn't sell the Anarchist soul... just how they'd want it.
    Last edited by a500lbgorilla; 10-07-2011 at 11:15 PM.
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  21. #96
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    Gaddafi captured. How much mud do you think he'll sling at the 1st world before it's over?

    ?wut
  22. #97
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    Obama: All U.S. troops out of Iraq by Dec. 31. The war will finally be over - Lynn Sweet

    We're gettin out of Iraq. Obama said it. And he's never said one thing and acted in an opposite or conflicting manner.
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  23. #98
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    ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Afghanistan would support Pakistan in case of military conflict between Pakistan and the United States, Afghan President Hamid Karzai said in an interview to a private Pakistani TV channel broadcast on Saturday.


    weeeeeeeee

    ?wut
  24. #99
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  25. #100
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  26. #101
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    BEIRUT (Reuters) - Western powers risk causing an "earthquake" across the Middle East if they intervene in Syria, President Bashar al-Assad said, after protesters called for foreign protection from a crackdown in which 3,000 people have been killed.
    Assad's warning came ahead of Syrian government talks on Sunday with the Arab League aimed at starting a dialogue between the government and opposition and ending violence which has escalated across Syria in recent days.
    Activists said Syrian forces killed more than 50 civilians in the last 48 hours and one activist group said suspected army deserters killed 30 soldiers in clashes in the city of Homs and in an ambush in the northern province of Idlib on Saturday.
    Assad's suppression of the seven-month uprising has drawn criticism from the United Nations and Arab League. Western governments have called on him to step down and imposed sanctions on Syrian oil exports and state businesses.
    Western countries "are going to ratchet up the pressure, definitely," Assad told Britain's Sunday Telegraph newspaper.
    "But Syria is different in every respect from Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen. The history is different. The politics is different."
    "Syria is the hub now in this region. It is the fault line, and if you play with the ground you will cause an earthquake."

    ?wut
  27. #102
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  28. #103
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    Arresting or assassinating American citizens here in the United States without trial? Rounding up and holding American citizens indefinitely without charge? What country is this? Answer: Not the America that I grew up in.

    S. 1867 the National Defence Authorization Act, which congress passed last night 93-7, ends posse comitatus and habeus corpus. This unconstitutional attrocity ...allows the US Government to indefinately detain, in a military facility and without right of due process, ANY AND EVERY US citizen. It authorizes the US military to patrol the US Homeland and confiscate privately owned firearms, house by house. All I can say is that you can have my guns when you can pry them from my cold dead hands.

    This is a new and unprecedented government power that should scare the living hell out of every last American. Rep. Justin Amash (R-MI) rightly called it “one of the most anti-liberty pieces of legislation of our life...time.” Jim Gilmore, former Virginia governor and chairman of the Congressional Panel on Terrorism, roundly denounced it: “The provisions of this bill undermine the basic safeguards that we enjoy as Americans. It is dangerous, and should not be supported by anyone: Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative, citizen or non-citizen.”

    Get ready because the nightmare is just beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by givememyleg View Post
    i'll never understand how anyone can go through life being sober.
  29. #104
    Yeah that is extremely bad. I don't think it applies to legal residents, but that's how they get you to think what it does apply to is good. I think it applies to illegals and any Americans abroad; which is where the lobby money would be anyways from the prison and war corps

    US imprisons 3x more people than any other country.
  30. #105
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    According to what I've read, it applies to any person that the president or his designates have determined is an "enemy combatant" or "terrorist", however no definition of those terms is given.

    The US has been officially declared the worst police state in the world, but I cannot remember where I read that. Lemme do some digging and see if I can find the site.

    Edit: Here's some links:
    America Might Be a More Gilded Cage than Egypt … But It Still Looks Like a Cage - Washington's Blog
    Main Core and PROMIS pt.1
    Last edited by Shotglass; 12-03-2011 at 02:09 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by givememyleg View Post
    i'll never understand how anyone can go through life being sober.
  31. #106
    My latest on it is that there's a technical loophole with the words "detain" and "arrested" to where American citizens are said to be safe from being "arrested", but not "detained". So that's real bad

    Obama also said he would veto it. But he's said a lot of shit
  32. #107
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    It gets worse.
    Mr. Obama has already exercised this unconstitutional power by his executive authority in the killing of an American citizen so the only reason that he said that he would veto this bill is because he feels that only the executive branch, not the courts or congress, may determine who is a terrorist.

    The nightmare is only beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by givememyleg View Post
    i'll never understand how anyone can go through life being sober.
  33. #108
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    Lol, good luck getting firearms away from the vast majority of people that own them without killing them first. If this dhit is put to use im getting the fuck outta dodge. Goodbye Pseudo-land of the free, hello margaritas and senioritas! Also marijuana.
    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    cock sauce and anything asian is great
  34. #109
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    as if they would let u into mexico

    ?wut
  35. #110
    as if they would stop anyone from getting into mexico
  36. #111
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    The Mexicans would love to have me there.
    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    cock sauce and anything asian is great
  37. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by givememyleg View Post
    i'll never understand how anyone can go through life being sober.
  38. #113
    Shame

    Pretty much zero percent chance I won't vote for Ron Paul if given the opportunity
  39. #114
    Video goes way over the top with ideas like military on the street. That could happen, but that's not something they'd be looking to do at this juncture, and it's not what the bill is about. The bill is about sweeping people under the rug. It's also about sadism. Don't think for a second that when the country is run by a sociopathic, fundamentalist socioeconomic philosophy, that sadists are not favored to rise to the top, and make these kinds of bills
  40. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Video goes way over the top with ideas like military on the street. That could happen, but that's not something they'd be looking to do at this juncture,
    I hate to burst the fantasy land bubble of yours, but it has been happening for a while:

    Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times
    » U.S. Army Puts Soldiers on the Street in Alabama in Response to Shootings
    Ventura, CA Police using armored vehicles in the streets | USWGO Alternative News
    Is Posse Comitatus Dead? US Troops on US Streets

    Quote Originally Posted by givememyleg View Post
    i'll never understand how anyone can go through life being sober.
  41. #116
    I'm not gonna defend the position opposite of you because I hate scumbag regimes too, and they're always looking to further tighten their power.

    My issue is that comparing this situation to a Gestapo-like martial law does a disservice to combating the problem because that's not really what they're trying to do at this juncture. US abuse system is more about keeping things quiet and hidden. Sometimes they can't though, like with OWS, and you see the pretty huge backlash that the obvious abuses in there have caused.

    For example, military already has had anti-protester lasers for quite some time that are unbelievably effective. But they don't use them in the US because they're mounted on the top of jeeps, and if they did use them the outcry would be more than they want. Their strategy is about the abuses being less than obvious
    Last edited by wufwugy; 12-05-2011 at 05:51 PM.
  42. #117
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    I'll agree with that. The tactic is to make small advances, similar to boiling a frog...slow heat. By the time most of the American public wakes up it'll be too late.

    I forget who, but someone once said: What the American public does not know is what makes them the American public.

    Quote Originally Posted by givememyleg View Post
    i'll never understand how anyone can go through life being sober.
  43. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Shotglass View Post
    I forget who, but someone once said: What the American public does not know is what makes them the American public.
    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it was Ray Zalinsky, the Auto Parts King.
    Ich grolle nicht...
  44. #119
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    Oh, yeah.... Tommy Boy

    Man, I watch too many movies.

    Quote Originally Posted by givememyleg View Post
    i'll never understand how anyone can go through life being sober.
  45. #120
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    One of the best movies, EVER.

    RIP Chris Farley
    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    cock sauce and anything asian is great
  46. #121
    RIP the 90s
  47. #122
    RIP a pre-9/11 world
  48. #123
    Roid_Rage's Avatar
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    You sir, are a Canadian, being as 9/11 was an American Tragedy:

    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    cock sauce and anything asian is great
  49. #124
  50. #125
  51. #126
    Wow, how did I miss this? Matt Damon is my hero.

    Matt Damon Absolutely Shreds Sarah Palin - YouTube
  52. #127
  53. #128
  54. #129
    I liked the one about the white house.
  55. #130
    Judge Napolitano.How to get fired from Fox Business in under 5 mins - YouTube

    Wow, I normally enjoy ignoring the boring melodramatic talking heads crap that appears in these threads, but everything this guy says is actually true.
  56. #131
    It's Fox's attempt to make people think they're reasonable, then after they're snatched they convince them to vote for trickle-down economics and corporatocracy through the more popular Fox strings

    Or something
  57. #132
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  58. #133
  59. #134
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    Revealed: US plans to charge Assange


    cant beat him? arrest him.

    ?wut
  60. #135
    Assange is a true hero
  61. #136
    Americans Elect 2012 | The first direct presidential nomination
    I have no idea if this could work, but it's an interesting idea. What do you guys think?
  62. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Americans Elect 2012 | The first direct presidential nomination
    I have no idea if this could work, but it's an interesting idea. What do you guys think?
    Heard about a while back, didn't look into. Signed up now and supporting Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Russ Feingold

    Not sure what to say, and I don't really understand it. Legally, I doubt it can mean something, but it could raise awareness, which is the biggest battle

    The ONLY solution to our mess is for good people to stand up and make demands of the Democratic Party. GOP voters already do that to their party, and the way our system works means that the "center" can only move right or left by cause of the base in either side pulling harder

    The reason the GOP base does it while those on the left do not is because the GOP has centralized their base on the ignorance militants. The base on the left are more tolerant and less pushy, and simply by design, we lose the battles due to this.

    Change in America comes when the progressives stop playing sallies and start making demands. Third party voter enthusiasm is misled because it needs to be like the Tea Party by way of forcing change from within the party. This is because we use the first past the post voting system.

    While in jest, Bill Maher still makes a fantastic point
  63. #138

    Default thank you

    good day
    Your site is very helpful...
    Thanks...
  64. #139
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    start using your brain more and vagina less

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  65. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by PymnPenurry View Post
    good day
    Your site is very helpful...
    Thanks...
    I'm waiting with bated breath for the more implied by the ellipsis.

    As a side note, how many of you use "baited" breath or the less common, "masturbated" breath?
  66. #141
  67. #142
    Fantastic Bill Moyers interview about why American politics is so fucked up. Not the voting system, not the campaign finance system, but what has become of the peoples' mentality by living in this immense entertainment culture. Relevant interview is only the first half

    Full Show: Where Movies End and Politics Begins | Moyers & Company | BillMoyers.com
    Last edited by wufwugy; 05-03-2012 at 01:44 PM.
  68. #143
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    it brings me great joy whenever msnbc brings on some far right winger on to eviscerate them publicly

    Chris Matthews destroys RNC chairman on live TV for playing race card | The Raw Story

    ?wut
  69. #144
    i get a feeling that a lot of anchors have had a little spark lit beneath them by will mcavoy
  70. #145
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    I listened to Clinton's speech at work today. It legitimately made we want to drop everything and become a politician.
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  71. #146
    He was pretty awesome

    We're in some pretty interesting political times. Liberalism is growing and the Dems are finally making the correct political decisions, while fundamentalism is dying and its representatives, the GOP, are stuck in a rotting web of lies
  72. #147
    the signs people are holding at the convention read "Middle Class First". This rubs me wrong for some reason. Like, it's just as bad as someone who says Rich People First. How about just people first? What about lower class people? It probably just sounded good, and whoever was behind the signs just didn't think it through, but it's sad to see all those people ecstatically waving the signs.
  73. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    the signs people are holding at the convention read "Middle Class First". This rubs me wrong for some reason. Like, it's just as bad as someone who says Rich People First. How about just people first? What about lower class people? It probably just sounded good, and whoever was behind the signs just didn't think it through, but it's sad to see all those people ecstatically waving the signs.
    Yeah everybody who doesn't examine their beliefs on a detailed philosophical level live in the same kind of bubble as everybody else. Just like the wealthy class doesn't understand the struggle of the middle class, the middle class doesn't understand the struggle of the poor class or classes further down the hierarchy like the prison or starving classes

    However, on a philosophical level, a "middle class first" idea can be of merit because the construction of the middle class is a socioeconomic phenomenon that raises people out of poverty status into a sort of pseudo-wealthy class due to more civil freedom and economic opportunity throughout a society.

    The American Dream was once the social mobility that provided for any poor person to become middle class. Over the last few decades, that ideal has been bastardized into any middle class person becoming filthy rich, and the unintended consequences have been a destitution of the very social mobility from poor to middle as well as backwards mobility from middle to poor; all the while the rich have been getting richer, perhaps in part because of an internalization of the bastardized American Dream ideal.

    So the "middle class first" concept can resonate with a move towards liberty, prosperity, and egalitarianism
  74. #149
    Right, my brain went there, but I lamely omitted it from my critique. Good post, sir.
  75. #150

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