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Scarface
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08-16-2006, 06:38 AM
Post subject: Tipping Etiquette
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 32
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Hi
I am emigrating to San Francisco from New Zealand in 8 days and I was curious as to what you are supposed to tip for? Also, how much do you need to tip.
Sam
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Play for FREE and practice your game at...
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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20% in restaurants.
50% if you're gabe.
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BobbySalami
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Limbo
Posts: 433
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The only shit I tip for is if the person gets pissed off in some way. i.e I tip baggage handlers, Hotel people, etc..
If they get pissed that I dont tip after I am out of there I dont tip, i.e. waiters/waitresses, cab drivers, etc....
Its not my fault they work a shitty job that is dependant on tips. Tipping is -EV
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If you wanna turn your daddy parts ORANGE eat some cheetos and watch some porn!
Currently sucking at life!
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boost
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BobbySalami
The only shit I tip for is if the person gets pissed off in some way. i.e I tip baggage handlers, Hotel people, etc..
If they get pissed that I dont tip after I am out of there I dont tip, i.e. waiters/waitresses, cab drivers, etc....
Its not my fault they work a shitty job that is dependant on tips. Tipping is -EV
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youre a fag, and are certainly going to hell, I hope your soul likes the heat.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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9:1
kidding:serious ?
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thenonsequitur
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08-16-2006, 07:08 AM
Post subject: Re: Tipping Etiquette
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#6 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
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17-22% for waiters/waitresses
8-12% for food delivery people
$1 to $2 for drinks at a bar ($3 if you're drunk, $4 if the bartender is hot)
12%-18% for cabbies
1 chip if you win a pot at a casino (2 chips if you're drunk, 3 chips if the dealer is hot)
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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what he said ^^^
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boost
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
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more for delivery drivers. For some reason most people are under the impression that places that have delivery drivers provide them with the vehicle and/or gas. This is rarely true. I delivered pizzas in highschool. To get a good tip yo uwant to get the pizza there quick and hot. You cant make full stops at stop signs, you cant go the speed limit, I never got a ticket while delivering but you easily can. Youre also putting wear and tear on your car, this is hard to quantify. Gas prices are even higher now.
Tips for delivery should be close to what you tip a waiter.
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theDEEPdish
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08-16-2006, 07:26 AM
Post subject: Re: Tipping Etiquette
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#9 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in a van by the river
Posts: 236
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thenonsequitur
8-12% for food delivery people
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I'm probably really biased since i deliver pizzas but food delivery should be different with like the minimum tip at 3$ and then 10-15% if your orders big, its different for a waiter because the amount that the meal costs corolates to the amount of work the waiter did, but the driver has to drive 5-15 minutes even if you only ordered 7$ of food
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boost
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
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yah, thats true too. good point deepdish
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theDEEPdish
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in a van by the river
Posts: 236
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and I think that a delivery person is the worst to give a bad tip because they know where you live, and getting stiffed really pisses them off(doesn't piss me off much anymore since i know its just variance)
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boost
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
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yah and if you order from that place a lot, its probably a terrible idea. I wouldnt spit in someones food, thats gross, but if you ever had fear of a waiter doing it, a delivery guy is hte real one to worry about. They have the food all to themselves in the privacy of their car. They can pull over on the way and spit in it a lot easier then a waiter could.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
20% in restaurants.
50% if you're gabe.
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end of thread baby
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theDEEPdish
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in a van by the river
Posts: 236
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by boostNslide
yah and if you order from that place a lot, its probably a terrible idea. I wouldnt spit in someones food, thats gross, but if you ever had fear of a waiter doing it, a delivery guy is hte real one to worry about. They have the food all to themselves in the privacy of their car. They can pull over on the way and spit in it a lot easier then a waiter could.
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I've taken a shit in someones food before 
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boost
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
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no way!? gah-rowsss
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i tip about 35-40% generally but it depends on the service obv.
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boost
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
20% in restaurants.
50% if you're gabe.
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end of thread baby |
I didnt know text impersonations could be this good... I mean you were trying to do a "scotty nguyen" right?
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pantherhound
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Love me for a season
Posts: 492
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Weird.
In england its like 10% for restaurants, slightly more in london, if you're a student you don't tip taxi drivers or delivery guys and they don't seem to care, if you're someone else you probably tip these guys but no more than 10%. I usually do FTR even though i'm jewish
When I lived in Italy llast winter there was absolutely NO tipping ANYWHERE, many italians seemed to be tight bastards
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Smiffy, the minimum wage is far lower in the States so it's an accepted fact of life that tipping is higher. I've had many arguments about this - and as has been made clear above, it's not going to be me pissing into THEIR food, so you gotta just go with it 
Here I tend to tip 10% and round up across the board. I bet Americans who come here and work in bars of coffee shops get a rude awakening when their tip jar gradually fills up with coppers rather than the soft wish of dollar bills like at home...
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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i tip cows.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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I dread to think what service they're providing.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
I dread to think what service they're providing.
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theyre asleep
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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You sick motherfucker
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by boostNslide
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
20% in restaurants.
50% if you're gabe.
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end of thread baby |
I didnt know text impersonations could be this good... I mean you were trying to do a "scotty nguyen" right? |
That's hilarious.
Also...
Quote:
The only shit I tip for is if the person gets pissed off in some way. i.e I tip baggage handlers, Hotel people, etc..
If they get pissed that I dont tip after I am out of there I dont tip, i.e. waiters/waitresses, cab drivers, etc....
Its not my fault they work a shitty job that is dependant on tips. Tipping is -EV
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I can only hope you pull this shit on the wrong taxi driver/waiter, and they run you down and beat the shit out of you. Tip, goddamnit.
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flomo
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mashing potatoes
Posts: 878
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here is a tip you can give everybody(waitresses, cabbies and delivery drivers)
Don't Drink Paint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Protect dog
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theDEEPdish
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in a van by the river
Posts: 236
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I tip my dealer (not card dealer)
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BobbySalami
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Limbo
Posts: 433
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by samsonite2100
I can only hope you pull this shit on the wrong taxi driver/waiter, and they run you down and beat the shit out of you. Tip, goddamnit.
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You just toss the taxi driver a bunch of small bills so by the time he realizes no tip, your too far away. Yes I am a very cheap bastard, but I have no reason to float off money when it is only 'proper form'. And BTW, I do tip delivery guys for all you past delivery drivers, because next time you order your getting shitty food....see what I mean, only tip when it has a negative effect on you if you didnt.
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If you wanna turn your daddy parts ORANGE eat some cheetos and watch some porn!
Currently sucking at life!
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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tip according to the service you get - I have left a penny at a restaurant before...the service was horrid and I wanted the waiter to know i dind't "forget" his tip - Usually i tip about 15% or so - Tip Taxi guys a buck or 2 sometimes 3 - Used to not tip them at all - Im incredibly cheap - I never even knew to tip hotel guys, but then again i'm always carrying my own stuff...For Pizza drivers (which i have done) $3 is a avg. tip, $5 is a Good tip, any more is excellent - I don't think %'s need to be considered at all - I have delivered $14 orders and got $6 as a tip, and i've delivered $90 orders and gotten $3...but getting flat out stiffed sucks the worst - I used to deliver to these 2 gay guys on welfare when I worked at Domino's - I had to carry a change bag because at dominos people are cheap and poor, and they need exact change - We had these 2 dudes living in a Pigsty, come to the door w/out shirts on and were just beyond gross (im not gay bashing, these guys were just gross) and they NEVER tipped - So one time I shorted them $1 on purpose when I had to count back like $12 in change - They CALLED the store and I had to go back and give them the Dollar - They ordered 2x a day...They were worthless fucks - STILL, I never, ever considered messing with their food - It takes a real piece of crap human being to do something like that -
sorry if that is way off topic - anytime i can tell a pizza story though, gotta do it
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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by the way, with the driver thing, I don't usually remember a place until i get there and have been there a few times - SO unless you order everysingle day, you will hardly get the same driver (unless you live in hobo-ville I guess)
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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funny pizza delivery story for the cheap bastards out there - I delivered an order to a guy one time that totalled $12.87 - He hands me $13 and with a real look of self fulfillment told me to "keep the change" like he was doing me a real favor - I was just like, you should keep it bro - you obviusly need it more than me -0
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theDEEPdish
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in a van by the river
Posts: 236
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I haven't worked for dominoes in over a year but when i did we never had to carry coins its perty ridiculous for anyone to ask you to do that.
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Quote:
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Yes I am a very cheap bastard, but I have no reason to float off money when it is only 'proper form'.
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It's not just "proper form." It's how servers/bartenders/delivery drivers/card dealers make a living. I guess if it doesn't bother you to effectively be fucking people out of their wage, so be it, but I personally wouldn't want to have a legion of service industry workers daily wishing death on me. If you're too cheap to tip, here's what you should do:
- eat at home
- drink at home
- walk everywhere/take the subway
- play online poker
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Usually i tip about 15% or so
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15% should be for mediocre service. 20% is industry standard and has been for a while. I'll tip 25-30% for really excellent service.
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theDEEPdish
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in a van by the river
Posts: 236
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if i were playing live i think that i would only tip if i won a 20+ big blind pot, then i would tip the dealer a small blind, more if i liked the guy
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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the whole idea of tipping live dealers seems proposterous simply because of how high live rake is.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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You don't tip because you're cheap? What the hell? I'm a cheapskate too in a lot of ways, but that doesn't apply to screwing people out of their income, it applies to saving money on things I don't really need. For example I live in a small apartment, I bought all used furniture, I don't have a car because I don't need one, I don't wear expensive clothes, and so on. That's what being cheap means IMO. If you don't tip, it doesn't make you cheap, it just makes you a dick.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Nice Guy Eddie: C'mon, throw in a buck!
Mr. Pink: Uh-uh, I don't tip.
Nice Guy Eddie: You don't tip?
Mr. Pink: Nah, I don't believe in it.
Nice Guy Eddie: You don't believe in tipping?
Mr. Blue: You know what these chicks make? They make shit.
Mr. Pink: Don't give me that. She don't make enough money that she can quit.
Nice Guy Eddie: I don't even know a fucking Jew who'd have the balls to say that. Let me get this straight: you don't ever tip?
Mr. Pink: I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job.
Mr. Blue: Hey, our girl was nice.
Mr. Pink: She was okay. She wasn't anything special.
Mr. Blue: What's special? Take you in the back and suck your dick?
Nice Guy Eddie: I'd go over twelve percent for that.
IDK, I think Mr. Pink makes a pretty good point there, but I still tip anyway.
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Fimanoid
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 161
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Nice Guy Eddie: C'mon, throw in a buck!
Mr. Pink: Uh-uh, I don't tip.
Nice Guy Eddie: You don't tip?
Mr. Pink: Nah, I don't believe in it.
Nice Guy Eddie: You don't believe in tipping?
Mr. Blue: You know what these chicks make? They make shit.
Mr. Pink: Don't give me that. She don't make enough money that she can quit.
Nice Guy Eddie: I don't even know a fucking Jew who'd have the balls to say that. Let me get this straight: you don't ever tip?
Mr. Pink: I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job.
Mr. Blue: Hey, our girl was nice.
Mr. Pink: She was okay. She wasn't anything special.
Mr. Blue: What's special? Take you in the back and suck your dick?
Nice Guy Eddie: I'd go over twelve percent for that.
IDK, I think Mr. Pink makes a pretty good point there, but I still tip anyway.
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+1
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BobbySalami
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Limbo
Posts: 433
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
You don't tip because you're cheap? What the hell? I'm a cheapskate too in a lot of ways, but that doesn't apply to screwing people out of their income, it applies to saving money on things I don't really need. For example I live in a small apartment, I bought all used furniture, I don't have a car because I don't need one, I don't wear expensive clothes, and so on. That's what being cheap means IMO. If you don't tip, it doesn't make you cheap, it just makes you a dick.
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I am cheap too, to the extreme. I own 2 pairs of shorts, 1 pair jeans. And like 7 shirts to get through the week. I have a desk, computer, bed, tv, couch all used.
How does not doing something that is 100% voluntary make me a dick?...they had a choice to work a job that is tip dependant or not just as I have a choice to tip or not tip them.
Working as a furniture mover for a few summers, those guys work fucking harder then just about any job out there, this is a also a provided service such as waitressing, driving, delivering, etc....yet these guys never get tipped...now how is that fair? Yet, not tipping doesn't make anyone a dick, and I never looked at people that didn't tip in that way when moving out $200,000+ homes......
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If you wanna turn your daddy parts ORANGE eat some cheetos and watch some porn!
Currently sucking at life!
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Quote:
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Working as a furniture mover for a few summers, those guys work fucking harder then just about any job out there, this is a also a provided service such as waitressing, driving, delivering, etc....yet these guys never get tipped...now how is that fair?
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Because they get paid more than $2.13 an hour, or whatever the bullshit wage is that waiters get. They get this wage b/c it's expected that, including tips, their hourly take will exceed minimum wage. This, of course, depends on people not being douchebags and opting to not tip them because it's "voluntary."
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How does not doing something that is 100% voluntary make me a dick?...they had a choice to work a job that is tip dependant or not just as I have a choice to tip or not tip them.
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Yes, you're right--they should've opted to be CEOs of a Fortune 500 company. I mean, Christ, are you serious? How much of a choice do you think most taxi drivers have about being taxi drivers?
If you don't tip these people, you're a dick. The fact that you tip people that can fuck you over for not tipping them makes you a dick and a pussy, as well. At least have the courage of your (wrong) convictions and tell the hulking bellboy at the next hotel you stay at, "Sorry, but I don't tip because it's voluntary and you didn't have to work this job."
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,042
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by samsonite2100
If you don't tip these people, you're a dick. The fact that you tip people that can fuck you over for not tipping them makes you a dick and a pussy, as well. At least have the courage of your (wrong) convictions and tell the hulking bellboy at the next hotel you stay at, "Sorry, but I don't tip because it's voluntary and you didn't have to work this job."
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zzomg wtf pwned amirite?
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Get your own badge! Click profile at the top and FTR Badge from the left nav.
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BobbySalami
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Limbo
Posts: 433
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Who said I wasnt a pussy?....an yes I was pwned....
Anyways, having worked plenty of bullshit jobs in my past, you have plenty of viable options that require no education, no experience, just pass a drug test that easily pay $10-14/hour, now why should I reward them for taking a shit job for $2/hour on the *hopes* they make enough in tips?
Plus, I think there is a difference between tipping at your local fancy restaurant(type i never visit)...and tipping at your local shithole where poor people like me eat.
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If you wanna turn your daddy parts ORANGE eat some cheetos and watch some porn!
Currently sucking at life!
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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bobby, i do agree with you that some people work alot harder for their money then waitresses, and i get pissed off when my waiter friends complain about all the people that didnt give them their automatic 20%. they act like its such a hard job and relatively speaking, its not
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BobbySalami
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Limbo
Posts: 433
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
bobby, i do agree with you that some people work alot harder for their money then waitresses, and i get pissed off when my waiter friends complain about all the people that didnt give them their automatic 20%. they act like its such a hard job and relatively speaking, its not
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True, if I see our waiter is running around like crazy sweating their ass off to get all their customers what they want, sure that deserves a tip. But when all they do is refill your soda and go hang out by the register and come by every 5 minutes asking "is evrything all right?"...I mean wtf, why does that deserve any tip money?
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If you wanna turn your daddy parts ORANGE eat some cheetos and watch some porn!
Currently sucking at life!
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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SO TO ANSWER OUR ORIGINAL POSTERS QUESTION........IT DEPENDS
WHO WOULDA THOUGHT IT
I did have a lady who worked at safeway in the deli - She would NOT tip, no matter what - She said if they wanted to make more money they should get different jobs - Whats funny is that waiters/waitresses even in Pizza joints can pull in $25-30 an hour EASY, and she was working her ass off for the $9 an hour safeway paid - In her case, I agreed with her...but i still tipped (despite being cheap)
This 30% though - Fuck people - the food is overpriced too often, the service is adequate anymore, and then you have tax of almost 10% - So you want me to pay $100 for a meal, $10 for tax, and then 30% of that? Fuck that - For $100 meal I usually tip about $15...Think about it - $15 is a good tip for 1 table - they don't do THAT much usually....maybe its cheap, but it feels like enough of a tip to me....
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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anyone here tip the barista girls at starbucks/tully's? I usually (not always) don't, because the price of the coffee is absurd - I know they live off tips and wages there, but fuck if i'm paying $6 for a dang coffee....Then again, I live by a independent shop and they have the HOTTEST freaking barista girls i've EVER seen - Like playboy hot - and they wear there tight little shirts and short-shorts...they get a tip from me everytime....So maybe i'm just biased, but those hot girls deserve it...What is bad is that they probably get WAY more tips than anywhere else, so i should be tipping the ugly people more (not ugly, but you know what i mean)....Beautiful girls don't seem to have too much problem getting my money....lol
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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yesterday i was buying a new suit at the department store. this really old black guy was helping me and it was better service than the last 10 waiters/waitresses ive had combined. not only was he well mannered and friendly, but it he seemed genuine in his interest to help me find something that fit perfect that wasn't overpriced. i finally bought something and he shook my hand and told me it was a pleasure helping me and to have a great day.
i wanted to tip this guy, but it would have been awkward. maybe i could have just talked to a manager about how i enjoyed his help or something? any thoughts on this?
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
yesterday i was buying a new suit at the department store. this really old black guy was helping me and it was better service than the last 10 waiters/waitresses ive had combined. not only was he well mannered and friendly, but it he seemed genuine in his interest to help me find something that fit perfect that wasn't overpriced. i finally bought something and he shook my hand and told me it was a pleasure helping me and to have a great day.
i wanted to tip this guy, but it would have been awkward. maybe i could have just talked to a manager about how i enjoyed his help or something? any thoughts on this?
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Yes, talk to his manager/email the store--if he gets a $.50 raise because of customer satisfaction, that'll go a lot farther than slipping him a fifty, or whatever.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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what if i say 'can i speak to a manager?' and he says 'i am the manager'
that would be awkward too. just thinking out loud though...
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Quote:
what if i say 'can i speak to a manager?' and he says 'i am the manager'
that would be awkward too. just thinking out loud though...
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Even if he's the manager, there are still higher-ups in the company you can write to or whatever to praise the job he's doing.
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I just wanted to add one thing. Obviously, I care a lot about this subject. I've worked in a number of service industry jobs, and a lot of my friends are waiters/bartenders/etc.
Technically, I agree with Gabe and Bobby to the extent that, no, most servers and bartenders are not working the hardest jobs in the world. I wish America was like Australia/Europe, and waiters made $12 an hour. However, the fact is that they do rely on your tips to make a decent-ish living. Every time you enter a restaurant, get in a taxi, sit down at a poker table, etc., whether you realize it or not, you are entering an unspoken social contract that says you the customer will provide a gratutity for services rendered.
No, it's not against the law to not tip, but then again, a lot of very common social contracts you would never think of breaking can be legally ignored. For example, it's not against the law to cut in line at the bank, either. Would you ever do that? Probably not, for a variety of reasons, including: 1) someone you cut in front of might punch you and 2) you've stood in enough lines in your life to know how angry you'd get if someone cut in front of you.
These invisible social contracts, and there are a million of them, comprise the backbone of civilized society. Saying you don't tip (in America) is like saying you slam doors in the face of old ladies, or loudly fart when you're on a date, or whatever; it says you're basically opting out of normative behavior to live in your own little world where consideration for other people is meaningless.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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sam your kind attitude about this subject strikes a chord of irony with your signature
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05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
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