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| spoonitnow |
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So yeah, let er rip. |
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Play for FREE and practice your game at...Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting! | ||||
| wufwugy |
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The US education system and evolution boils down to economic protectionism and bigotry. Things like property taxes funding public schools has no choice but to decimate education quality of poor districts. Pump the capital gains tax up about 20% (still lower than what it should be), distribute it equally across the board or specifically into poor districts, then watch as education quality skyrockets. The only problem with this is that it keeps the rich from chanting their favorite mantra, "fuck the poor, fuck the poor, fuck the poor...." |
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| sah_24 |
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Basically my entire immediate family are teachers , my mom (is a retired math teacher 29yrs) , my sister (elementary teacher) , my aunt (elementary teacher) , my cousin (high school history teacher) and they are by far the least appreciated profession on the planet and how they are treated is pretty ridiculous . Both my sister and aunt almost didnt have jobs here in missouri this year bc their jobs were almost cut completely from the budget bc of the major funding issues that are rampant across the us today . The districts that are cutting teachers (wich there are many) u will now have teachers having to teach up to 3x as many kids as they did the year b4 wit no pay increase and some even take cuts . In california the problem just seems to 5x worse than it is here in missouri and its pretty bad . the corruption of our govt is just amazing and general populous just could care less |
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| Vinland |
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lol at #5 Been out of high school for a bit now but have a teacher friend. He says the stuff kids learn in most subjects is far advanced compared to 20 yrs ago. Even when I was in high school, my Dad looked at my stuff in grade 11 and 12 and said "never seen that before" So I dont know.....are they really teaching worse content? Or is the environment in school just worse b/c of large classroom etc... or are they holding the hands of most students in earlier grades when they shouldnt (grades 2-7 esp....I dont think they fail anymore....) |
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I confess in quicksand
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| Keith |
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I think its rampant across most of the "advanced" countries. Governments need to show how well they are educating the kids , so they need to coninually get record levels of results . Only way they can do this while cutting the expenditure is to make the exams easier. It does a disservice to the kids who then think that they are now Uni standard and can borrow loads of money to put themselves through uni and keep themselves off the unemployment figures which also helps the Govt targets. Then at the end of the day , they are in shitloads of debt , got a shit degree (if they didn't drop out because the Uni stuff was too hard for them)and can't find a job. |
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| wufwugy |
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I forget the numbers, but the literacy rates of High School graduates is abysmally low. Only a small minority of students have access to well-financed education |
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| spoonitnow |
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| I've got to keep this short or I'll never get anything else done today. Teacher pay, social promotion, and summer breaks all piss me off. It also pisses me off that grades have went up while the average amount of actual work done has went down. | |||
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| oskar |
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I have a vague memory of weired squiggly signs and curves with points and lines on them, but I have no freaking clue what the hell it was we did with that. And I don't think I did back then. I might be hopelessly optimistic because I have never worked with more than two children at once... but make them figure out stuff on their own with a little help. You can make them calculate g with some really easy tools, or the speed of light, or in how many generations voyager 1 will reach proxima centauri... and other cool stuff. That's not cool tho, right.  idk... I feel hopelessly out of touch with ... youth. But I still think application is the key. |
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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| kevster |
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| One of America's biggest problems is it's size obv. | |||
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- You're the reason why paradise lost
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| wufwugy |
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Having a bunch of little nations (states) and one big nation (federal government) rather mutually beholden to each other is a recipe for turmoil |
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| Renton |
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| Public education is one of those things in the U.S. that is fucked and will never not be fucked, because even though it is an important issue to repair (probably the most important, at least long term), it will always take a back seat to other crises that America at large finds to be more important and/or bullshit issues that are over-publicized such as gay-marriage or abortion, not to mention immediate threat issues such as unemployment and public debt. | |||
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| givememyleg |
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 Get your own badge! Click profile at the top and FTR Badge from the left nav. "The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan I say onto you, I've felt the dragon! I felt the touch of his tail, the breath of his fire, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the dragon exists!
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| lolzzz_321 |
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| Several of my friends teach at inner city schools and they say it is pretty bad. 10th graders don't know what a triangle is or how to use a ruler. Ya, they could use some more funding for sure but my friends really complain about the standardized tests and the parents/guardians not caring about their kids education. | |||
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| Donachello |
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It's an interesting topic for sure. Personally I went to a private school and while I essentially didn't try for my entire school career I still graduated with a fairly stellar GPA (though not a 4.0). In that sense it's like, wtf I didn't try and still got better grades than 99% of the kids in the US, how does that prepare me for college at all? The interesting thing is, I entered college expecting to have to work my ass off when in reality after 3 years (going into my senior year) I have probably found college to be far easier than a lot of high school was. I find it absurd that many of my fellow students struggle to eek out a C in Biology 100 while I spend the exact same amount of time in class (often less because I'm a lazy fuck) and still manage an A-. I also find it appalling that a teacher will send me an e-mail with "your" and "you're" confused. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this tbh but I think my main point is that a huge huge huge burden of learning rests on the individual's own shoulders. My view of a teacher is that they should be guiding students towards learning on their own. Obviously, a teacher is there to explain concepts that a student cannot grasp themselves but, in reality, if you do not make the effort to learn on your own then your own laziness is going to continue to cost you. I do agree with trip, from what I have heard/seen about inner city schools as well as just the public schooling system in general. Renton as well. I feel like the education system has been back burnered for so long and devolved so much to where the teachers don't want to be there thus creating an atmosphere totally adverse to learning that the students are immediately put off as well. It's all just so fucked that no one wants to try and wade through the garbage to even begin to try and fix it. /rant |
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[00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
[00:30] <DC> daven [00:30] <DC> on my hand? [00:30] <daven> yep [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk [00:30] <daven> nice reason [00:30] <daven> no further questions [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol Problem officer...?
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| Sasquach991 |
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I have a son who's a senior in high school. Here's what I have found out over the years. The subject matter now is sometimes more difficult but the teachers spoonfeed the students to make it easy. Math: You can take calculus in the 9th grade. Two days before the test the teacher will give out a practice test to be completed by the student the next day. The next day the practice test is reviewed showing the students exactly how to do the problems. On test day it's the same test with only numbers changed. History: Note taking is not necessary as the teacher will give out a study guide with exactly what will be on the test. During the week the teacher goes over the answers without the students have to make any effort to find the answers themselves. Test is all multiple choice. English: One book report for the entire year and you read it during the summer. Teacher discusses the book at the beginning of the school year and gives a summary to the students so they don't even have to read the book, just read the summary. I guess Cliffs Notes aren't even necessary any more. |
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"Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"
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| mcatdog |
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| Sucks that this thread is mostly just rambling. I was hoping it would be about how to teach well. I was a calculus TA for a couple of years, now I teach piano lessons one night a week. It's pretty hard to do an effective job and I'm always looking for good advice on how to teach better. | |||
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| bode |
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| Thoughts on teachers pay? i've always thought that teachers were so underpaid, but after being out of college and working now for 6+ years i think there pay isn't nearly as bad as its made out to be. I have a friend that started teaching at a fairly small school making $33k, which doesn't seem like much, but thats for 9 months a year with countless other random days off. Tack another 33% on to that and thats a hell of a starting salary for a 23 year old. | |||
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| bhaley66 |
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| The biggest problem in school that I encountered was that all students were grouped together when the teachers/subjects were trying to follow the "no child left behind" bs. I think thats great they dont want to leave anybody behind, but dont slow everybody else down in the meantime... If I had the chance to take school all year round, and constantly learn rather than spend weeks on one topic that I understood pretty damn well in one day, I would have been much less bored. | |||
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| Imthenewfish |
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| 6spark6 |
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Not saying that rich kids don't have it nicer (a brand new dell instead of the one that has been rebuilt umpteen million times to keep it limping along), but I don't think they get a better education. In fact, one could argue that since the rich kids have so many amenities (#1 being money), they have it easier and summarily learn less. The whole education "system" is screwed in the united states. But it's our own fault. It has been catered to our laziness. It's not a white thing, it's not a black thing, it's not even a class thing. The bottom line is that we (the US population) as a whole have become lazier and less inclined to reach for actual knowledge (not celeb gossip) due to technological assistance and the rampant availability of entertaining distractions (Teh interwebs and such). I think also physical punishment being banished from public schools contributes. Since, you know, you don't get cold-cocked when you are alseep in class anymore. Instead, they just give you a "referral" and then ask you to deliver it to the office (Maybe that works when the kid is 6 and doesn't know better/have a car?). Used to be parents and teachers "forced" kids to learn, but now that's called child-abuse. And I agree that standardized testing is terrible. But every child's parent's want their kids to pass, and will throw a fit if they don't (not to mention the funding schools lose if they fail), so the teachers teach answers....not how to get them. And kids are too lazy/busy watching hannah-montana to find out. This leads to kids not giving a rats-ass in class, and they don't learn anything (except the answers to standardized tests...sometimes). I've seen teachers have books thrown at them by wanna-be thugs for suggesting that the class "settle down". But teachers can't suplex kids any more, so the kids keep fucking off...and the teachers are scared of telling administration for fear of interpreted failure and summarily dismissal from their position. It's a catch-22. Because of this dynamic, the kids don't learn what a triangle is, and they don't care. As long as they can get the new jay-z album and a pair of jordans (or dg glasses in the case of the richies) everything is perfect in thier world. Hell, most college students I meet (and I work on a campus), are absolutely clueless...about anything. That's why they are at college. Some do actually go to further a career they are interested in, but since an absurd number are "undeclared" until the first semester of junior year, I would tend to think most just go because it's accepted. And they cheat, and they pass, and they still learn nothing. It's just standard now that you are supposed to further your education to "open doors" and "get a good job". The "good job" at dell for 45k a year salary, working 60 hrs a week, for 7 years, just to be laid off....well, it just doesn't sound all that intriguing to me. As for opening doors, it definitely does that, but so does any sort of forced socialization you buy-into. I read somewhere that 75% of self-made millionaires have no college degree. Somehow, that seems about right. If you can't figure out how to exploit the system, you are probably being exploited. The truth is, education is wasted unless it's wanted. No one wants it = no one gets it. Period. True in poker, and in real life. P.S. To mcatdog: My problems in school were always: 1)motivation/interest 2) Teachers re-teaching me a subject (though this is kind of hard to get around) Really, I could have overlooked #2 if they had adressed #1. Relate the subject matter to the student, and give them a reason to care. Simply put, if someone had pointed out how mathematics affected poker while I was in school, I would probably have gotten straight a's in math rather than 71's and 72's (the result of simply cramming for 15 min before the test, rather than paying attention.....at all). I had tried to tutor a friend of mine (I know, the deaf leading the dumb) and found it irritating until I figured out that my friend was a gearhead. I then refurbished the math problems in terms of a car, and all of a sudden it stuck. He didn't care about the math until he realized he could use it to make his car go faster/perform better. If that helps. Edit: I thought about it a little more, and foundations were a problem for me as well. Teachers taught me formulas in class, but not why we were using the formula, and/or how it worked. They would teach you how to decipher x and y from a word problem, and how to put them into the equation, but it was all kind of abstract because they didn't explain what the end result meant. I would have to dig that up myself in that 15 minutes before a test. |
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| kingnat |
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Hmm, I can't really comment too much about the education system as a whole (particularly at the K-12 level), which I'm guessing is what spoon is going for giving "Teaching/Education" in the title.(?) Well, I could ramble about lots of stuff like others have done, and while I might think my opinion is better informed than the average person (based on my education), it's not necessarily. I do have a fair amount to say about the disparity between "teaching" (essentially, what the instructor does), and "learning" (what the students do). Some of which is broadly applicable (K-20+), and some is more applicable to undergraduate education, and even moreso within the sciences, specifically physics..... as all of #irc can attest i'm sure. I don't know if that's of interest to participants in this thread or not. |
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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| spoonitnow |
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I love teaching and I love learning but I have no idea where to start on either subject really. What bothers me the most currently are students who are unable to learn because of some sort of entitlement issue. I find it really frustrating to try to motivate people who don't seem to have any buttons I can push to get them motivated to learn. And there's a lot that goes into this. I can't remember who it was I was talking to, but they told me a story of how they were teaching a college class, some lower level discrete math class I believe, and they got an email from a student asking if they could do some sort of extra credit work to bring their grade up in the class... and the class had been over for 2-3 weeks. Sometimes it really pisses me off to try to talk to people about this who aren't involved with teaching. Often they say stupid shit like the reason grades go up while the amount of work done goes down is that kids are smarter these days. |
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| kiwiMark |
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| You guys have mostly co-ed schools in the states, right? | |||
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| spoonitnow |
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| spoonitnow |
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In the subjects I look back in and think that I learned a lot from being taught in the form of a person at a board in front of a class, I think there was a basic format to the way the lessons were delivered. Step 1: The idea is presented along with applicable theory Step 2: Examples are given of the idea in practice Step 3: You work your ass off on homework Step 4: Some homework is reviewed while helping to make important connections This is the basic scheme I use when teaching in this format. I think a lot of skill in teaching in this format comes from adapting each step as needed for maximum effect, and to keep it from becoming about memorization, etc., and more about problem solving and critical thinking and so forth. A note about homework. I think it should be more about discovery and learning important skills than repeating a process over and over. For example, most math books in K-12 seem to be heavy on exercise and low on problem-solving, and I think that should be the other way around. |
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| bjsaust |
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When I started Uni I answered a few adds looking for maths tutoring from high school students. One was a boy in year 9 (thats 3 years off graduating high school here). I started off looking at his current problems and working through stuff. It didn't take long to work out his problem wasn't an inability to do algebra or whatever he was studying. He didn't know his times tables (not sure if you call them the same thing, but in primary school I learnt by rote everything from 1x(1-12) to 12x(1-12). How can you do anything in maths without at least knowing that? I moved towns halfway through my first year of high school. One of our first lessons was maths and the teacher put on a test. People were asking if they could use their tables, I didn't know what they meant until they turned their notebooks over to use the times tables that were written on the back. Its a sad state of affairs. I just don't get how people are supposed to learn maths without at least learning the basics. I'm all for learning how to learn, etc, but ffs, you need a base to start from. |
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Just playing to improve.
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| bigred |
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| ITS BECAUSE WE DON'T TEACH ABOUT JESUS | |||
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LOL OPERATIONS
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| chardrian |
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some random thoughts: I think rich kids learn more but it's not just because they have higher property taxes which = better schools. More importantly is that they also grow up in a culture where school is thought of as a place to learn not just to be babysat, they often have parents who are involved with their schooling and make them do their homework, they are smart cuz their parents are smart, and higher education is thought of as a given not as a hurdle that is really difficult to cross. I also think kids who were privileged enough to grow up in this culture often retardedly fail to see how privileged they were. |
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http://chardrian.blogspot.com
come check out my training videos at pokerpwnage.com
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| Monty3038 |
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My answer. Start failing the fucking kids that can't learn. Stop punishing the smart kids by making them hold back for the dumb ones. My kid sucks at math, her grades reflect it and I'm glad they do. She has to work hard for her grades, and she deserves them... but many of the kids have their parents doing their homework (like my mom did for my brother) and they don't know shit. We are too worried about hurting kids feelings, alienating the stupid ones, etc... Let's get back to taking care of our own, not expecting the government to do so, let's treat teachers with respect, instead of as baby sitters. And yes, I am sure I butchered the English language in this post... I sucked at English and my grades reflected that. But I excelled at Math... strange how I still suck at poker. |
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| Renton |
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| Yeah I bet if schools made a policy of auto-failing the bottom 50%ile of all students in all grades for about 10 years or so that would clean up the educational system in a big fucking hurry. | |||
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| spoonitnow |
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| Renton |
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| Lol yeah I remember that. Elitism at its best. | |||
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| wufwugy |
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We know for fact that when things like literacy are low and crime is high it's due to economic oppression. Not because the kids can't learn or are selfish or whatever the propagandists tell us I recommend we take some of Exxon Mobil's tens of billions tax subsidy and give it to families living on 30k a year. But wait we can't do that because then our overlords wont be able to afford to redesign the top floor balcony of their ivory towers. It's not a coincidence that some nations' education systems are superb, and all the kids get free laptops and free higher education and the kids' parents have protected incomes and strong vacation hours. They traded in their ivory towers for human rights, something we can't figure out how to do because we're too busy daydreaming about getting teabagged by Rupert Murdoch. |
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| swiggidy |
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Side note: Every person I know who has attempted to teach middle or high school has since found a new profession. The K-3 types seem to be happy. |
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(\__/)
(='.'=) (")_(")
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| sah_24 |
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u realize that 33k salary pretty much doesnt improve unless u have a masters degree right ? and that job can pretty much get cut at any time wit how budgets work now. and that salary is also way on the high side in the areas i live u can subtract about 10k ! |
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| Renton |
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So basically to get over that ideological hurdle you have to convince an entire 45% of the country that taking care of low-income people would pay societal dividends in the long run. But then you have to teach them hard words like "societal," "dividend," and "long." |
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| wufwugy |
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RE: pay, depends a ton on districts. All in all, public education staff pay is not even close to lucrative. It's nothing like being Goldman Sachs and buying Treasury bonds at zero interest then selling them back at positive interest. Where is Mr. UG? |
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| wufwugy |
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Also, since the word entitlement was brought up, the amount of entitlements given to the wealthy are astronomically, colossally, unfathomably higher than to the poor. It's so bad that these dickheads get their panties in a wad with damaged egos when asked to pay 3/4ths the tax rate that poor people do instead of half. Our corporate welfare is like 100x the amount of real welfare. Exxon Mobil, a corporation with larger GDP/revenue than the entire nation of Finland, pays zero US taxes and gets blowjobs in return while a poor schmuck skips out on paying taxes on his 20k then goes to prison It's virtually impossible to find a contemporary US right-wing talking point that isn't completely false and demonizing the opposition. |
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| kingnat |
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| HIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, i'm wut??!!!!!! | |||
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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| Renton |
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Anyways, I apologize for derailing the thread to another republican bashfest. |
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| 6spark6 |
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Forget the system. It's flawed...most are. We live in a time when I can learn anything about anything at 3:00 in the morning from my porch. That's ridiculous in terms of educational advancement. At this point, it falls on us. If you want to expand your mind, you're boundless. Yet, there are still people that can't seem to grasp subtraction. Probably because the computer screen tells them how much change to give you, and they don't really give a shit past that. The problem comes down to laziness. |
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| spoonitnow |
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| I disagree that it's laziness. I think it's just not made to be important. | |||
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| bhaley66 |
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Priorities; important subjects are emphasized no more in school than lesser important subjects. IMO math is the #1 most important subject in school, everything involves math, and everyone uses it day to day. In school however, I was only required to take 1 semester more of math than art; wtf? I agree that diversity is important, but the more important subjects NEED to be portrayed as such. |
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| wufwugy |
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Actually, math beyond simple arithmetic isn't that important. It is extremely important for more advanced professions, but the vast majority of people need nothing beyond arithmetic Social sciences and classes that teach critical thinking and the role of discipline in life are the most important, fundamentally. The former is very rare and the latter two are almost non-existent |
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| bhaley66 |
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The problem solving in math and science classes is far more important than history imo... I know far too many people who do not know how to figure anything out for themselves... |
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| wufwugy |
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| History is but one aspect of the study of society and humanity. The problem solving of math doesn't carry over too well in life, and the way science is taught mostly ignores the kind of analysis that carries over to life well. Critical analysis needs to be addressed specifically | |||
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| kingnat |
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To spoon's question about motivating the totally unmotivated: If you are dealing one-on-one with a student, which is what i think Spoon is referring to, then I'd find out why the student is in the class, what they want to do and try to find a way to make the content I want them to learn relevant to them. From a pedagogical standpoint, I would attempt to determine what ideas they do possess, that are relevant to the material I want them to learn and I would attempt to build from there. Asking them leading questions and eliciting their explanations as to why they think a particular idea is true whenever it I feel it is relevant. It is not always going to work. I firmly believe in access to education for all, but without some effort at some point – I will eventually say, "Good Luck to you," and then I let it go. (They letting go is usually the toughest part.) |
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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| BennyLaRue |
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| YouTube - RSA Animate - Changing Education Paradigms | |||
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| BennyLaRue |
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| That link is much cooler than it sounds in the title, both the content and the way it is presented. | |||
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| CoccoBill |
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| Latest Poker News | |
| KoRnholio |
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
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| According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... | |
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