A Song of Ice and Fire ***MAJOR SPOILERS from a game of thrones up to TWOW***

[JKDS]

WARNING: This thread will contain major, huge, wtf spoilers from the Song of Ice and Fire book series. DO NOT READ if you have not read the books but are watching the Game of Thrones TV Show.















Im super cereal! Turn back now! Books 1,2,3,4 and 5 are being discussed here! Go away!

[JKDS]

So I just finished book 5. And im pretty fucking mad.

Book 5 Spoilers, in spoiler tags just in case someone was reading a full screen sized thread and their eyes wandered.

Spoiler: Show

They killed John Snow!!!??? WTF OMG NO QQ. I hope hes alive, and he just had some kind of death vision or something. Im going to be so mad if hes actually dead. Ramsay has to be lying about killing Stannis right? Theon was with Stannis, so if Ramsay really defeated him then he'd know where Theon was.

I love that Dany is actually going to be doing something now, i was getting really tired of that loitering bullshit.

Also...omg varys just go wayyyyy cooler.

[bikes]

LORD BERIC FUCKING DONDARRION

[Renton]

I've loved and enjoyed the books, but the story has become cumbersome. There are too many characters and they are too far apart. Daenerys should be interacting with westeros characters by now and she isn't, with a minor exception or two. Arya's plot is awesome but again I wish she were interacting with other characters. Aside from the amazing Theon/Reek arc, I'm not that interested in the Iron Islands. Dorne is also a fairly expendable storyline. If it weren't for these two, the story might have progressed another year or more in the time of five books.


Regarding Jon Snow, I'm pretty sure that he will survive or be reanimated by Melisandre somehow. There is no pov on the wall otherwise. He's also like a super duper main character. But then again we never anticipated the Red Wedding or Ned.

[JKDS]

I enjoyed arya's storyline enough. Her missions gave some insight about whats been happening with some other characters at times, and shes been tied for my favorite character next to tyrion and jon.

Im pretty sad that Caityln isnt doing more ghostly dead things, but i can settle with this whole Brienne Jaime thing

[BennyLaRue]

Who cares? Fat guy is dying before this series gets finished.

[BennyLaRue]

Spoiler: Show

They killed John Snow!!!??? WTF OMG NO QQ. I hope hes alive, and he just had some kind of death vision or something. Im going to be so mad if hes actually dead.

Spoiler: Show

He's probably just going to warg into his direwolf.

[JKDS]

You leave samwise gamgee alone benny!

[dranger7070]

No way pigboy is dying anytime soon.

Red Wedding was the most mind exploding thing Ive ever read in a fiction book.

@renton: aside from the RIDICULOUSLY long irl wait between the fourth and fifth books, I feel like the story is progressing nicely. I just hope he doesnt try to rush it along with the show being aired.

[dranger7070]

And yeah, Jon Snow thing made me wtf a bit, but I got over it way quicker since I get that no one is safe in these books. Still pretty lame since his story was really starting to interest me and I was starting to warm up to him as a major.character.

Cant wait to see how Dany and Tyrion react together. $5 says he hits that. Shes already getting semi-ruthless but hes going to.turn her into a coldhearted bitch ala the first Targaryen invasion where king aegon or w/e made crispy cremes outta errbody.

[JKDS]

My main concern, is that the author is super old. It will be one of the biggest trolls of all time to just kick the bucket after going so far with the books and show and then not have a conclusion.

I want tyrion to ride a dragon!

[Renton]

He's not super old, he's 63. But he is fat.

[JKDS]

I just realized benny was talking about the author :3

[BennyLaRue]

Red Wedding was the most mind exploding thing Ive ever read in a fiction book.

Spoiler: Show

Sure, followed closely by Samwell Tarly getting his "pink knob" wet or whatever the weird way Fatty McWritey wrote it was.

[dranger7070]

Wildling poon tang. Mmm mmm good. Todays equivalent is trailer trash. Me and samwell have similar tastes!

[JKDS]

I kinda disliked how theon was portrayed in the tv show...but he'll make an excellent Reek imo.

Also loved how they made Brienne.

Last, WTF RENLEY WAS GAY? Man i missed that when i read book 2.

[BennyLaRue]

Renley was pretty ldo gay in Season 1 as well.

Should we make fun of the show watchers ITT?

[dranger7070]

Yeah I never got that Renly was gay until like, the 4th or 5th book when it made it very obvious. Looking back in book 1 now its seems somewhat obvious with talk of how he was always dressed in the latest fashion, and LF cracking jokes about some shit with him.

[bikes]

So who do we think the prince who was promised is?

[JKDS]

Its totally dany

[bikes]

tbh it almost has to be =( or some combination of 3 people because the dragon must have 3 heads. Dany, Snow, Bran one time? Why Bran? Because he's fucking awesome that's why.

it annoyed me greatly that kevan had to die. though the way that it unfolded was very cool imo. Two men pulling the strings of every important person? sexy.

[JKDS]

I can see Snow being it. Theres no way in hell stannis is, he seems too fake and I trust what Aemon said regarding Stannis's lightbringer having no heat.

Id hate if Vicatarion was even just 1/3 of the dragon's heads...even though it would fit.

If more than one person could be Azor...then id want Dany, Snow, and Tyrion myself. Id rather bran played a strong role outside of everyone else. That role could be working with or against the others...idc.

Also ya, Kevan dying was pretty troll. It was as if Martin was just like "ok, now everyone thinks he matters....PSYCH, JK HE DEAD NOW LOLOL"

[dranger7070]

So what do we think is going to happen Brans role as a tree? Im kind of lost on that one... Lol

[JKDS]

Ive been trying to wiki "Old Nan's" stories for awhile and cant seem to find any. Im still not convinced what Bran is learning is 'good' or if the ppl hes with are 'good'. Feels like other witchcraft to me.

Anyway, with bran. He can go into trees, he can go into animals, he can do all kinds of stuff. The tree thing...makes me believe that the old tree gods are fake...and just misconceptions characters had because someone like bran tree talked to them. "Sheeitt the tree talked! Worship it and carve faces into the ones that talked" that kinda thing. But more on Bran, i think hes gonna have a strong role as a leader of the wildlings due to his abilities. Or...the ppl hes with are wight/other allies...in which case hes gonna be a POV for their side..and form this whole "Evil is a shade of gray" kinda crap and be a leader to them. I think the first case is more likely but im fine with both.

Going further with dismissing false gods in works of fiction (lol amirite?), the Drowned God i strongly think is the god of the Others. Especially with all there "what is dead can never die" blibberblabber. Either that...or its another religion based on misunderstanding an old tradition where somehow drowning yourself makes you impermeable to wight disease.

[baudib]

Red Wedding was the most mind exploding thing Ive ever read in a fiction book.

I had to read it like 3 times just to make sure I was getting it right. WHAT. REALLY. EVERYONE'S DEAD?!?

I mean, I was getting a creepy feeling that everything was going too smoothly, but man.

[BennyLaRue]

Stupid Freys. Stupid Walders.

[Renton]

Red Wedding question: Why was grrm so unspecific about Roose Bolton being the one who personally slays Robb. I didn't know about that until many chapters later when it was hearsay in another part of Westeros?

Seems more natural to play up the betrayal of Roose's action instead of him being some nameless sword who kills him.

[baudib]

IDK, he was smoking some serious dope when he wrote that.

Renton, you're absolutely right about the story being too cumbersome, because sitting here right now I can't even tell you what Roose Bolton did before Red Wedding.

Incidentally, I haven't finished reading the books and probably won't, at least not until the TV series catches up to where I stopped. Stuff like what JKDS posted is exactly the type of discussion I'm interested in seeing about the TV show, I hope it continues here.

[JKDS]

An interview with the actor that plays Arya reveals that Arya meets up with Tywin at some point in the tvshow.

The fuck???

There were ppl thinking that the show wouldnt exactly follow the books, but i just kinda shrugged off that thought as being baseless jibberjabbing. Now its true O.O

[Renton]

The Arya plotline needs some serious work to be TV viable, I say bring it.

[bikes]

It's going to sadden me when Tommen dies.

[JKDS]

Sir Pounce is the greatest character of all time. Of all time!

[JKDS]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17k7...g/original.jpg lulz

[bikes]

not what i expected hbo to show for the shadow spirit birth -.-

[Renton]

Did they delete Jojen and Meera? It looks like Bran is having the greendreams alone? This seems like a cool change, but I wonder who will go with Rickon when they split up at Winterfell, assuming both Osha and Hodor go with Bran.

[bikes]

I thought osha went with rickon.

[Renton]

Yeah she did, but without the Reed twins prob both hodor and osha will go with Bran on the show.

[bikes]

After watching and rewatching the show I am reminded how angry I was when I first read that Renly dies. Fucking Martin.

[baudib]

Is the part where the guy in Qarth offered to marry Dany in the book? I thought they just wanted her dragons.

[JKDS]

Looks like theyre really taking the show in a different direction. Its still a pretty good show, but im really hopeful all these changes dont fuck everything up.

Arya with tywin really pokes a hole in her reason for not naming him as the first person to kill, and not fighting the tickler with the Hound much much later is gonna be weird too...i liked that book scene

[baudib]

I like Arya with Tywin, it works for me. It seems weirder that the Reed twins aren't there, but I understand how explaining them and their backstory would be burdensome. It would just give some life to those dreadful scenes where Bran hears the complaints of his subjects.

[dranger7070]

Weirdo from qarth is in the book. The whole thing being that the new husband can ask one gift from his new wife that she cant refuse, and vice versa.

[JKDS]

Changed my mind. Im pretty sure the changes are only there to explain whats said in the character's heads. I was watching some scenes from season 1, and lots of stuff happened that didnt happen in the books, but everything that needed to be said got said. So im happy with season 2 now lol.

[JKDS]

I really like the actor that plays joffery at the moment. The actor plays a great prick, and i think i actually hate tvshow joff more than book joff! I feel that kind of thing is harder to do for an actor than playing the opposite like tyrion, yet i dont think this actor is gonna get recognized for it. It really is really good.

[baudib]

TV Joffrey is definitely more of a prick. It may be because the book was very much from Tyrion's POV, but TV Joffrey certainly seems more autonomous, more willfully evil. The allusions to the Mad King are obvious, and Joffrey himself expressed admiration for the Tagaryans.

[Renton]

Do I not remember Clash of Kings or is season 2 way way different from the book?

[baudib]

way different imo although maybe I'm misremembering myself. Stealing the dragons is definitely new.

[Renton]

the tywin plot, the dragons being stolen, stannis fucking melisandre, the way they are representing the robb/jeyne courtship (cat never met her until after they were already married), the second arya/jaqen choice. Probably plenty of other things I'm not remembering.

[JKDS]

I get the tywin thing, i think it would be pretty hard to accept that Arya just 'forgot' about him when naming who to kill like what happened in the book. This ways a little more believable for the show imo.

But i have no fucking clue what is going on with Dany. I think its pretty clear that the Wizard dude took the dragons, and the theft will be the reason Dany goes to the house of the undying...but i dont see why they had to do it this way.

[baudib]

Do you think there will ever be a payoff to this series? I'm betting on HBO giving us resolution before GRRM.

[JKDS]

Let the fruit trolling commence!

[bikes]

[dranger7070]

I think theyll happen within a year of each other.

[Renton]

The arya/tywin shit is great and the stuff with the thirteen is cool too. I think omitting meera and jojen was a good choice as well. I hate the way they are doing the bran/rickon thing right now though. It's so clear that they aren't dead. They should have just not shown them at all after they escaped, just like in the books. I sincerely hope at least that bran and rickon do not show up for the rest of the season, until the the final shot. That would be reasonable redemption imo.

[JKDS]

Im teetering on this whole Dany business just being an illusion by the wizard dude. Idk, something like "you feared losing your people and dragons the most, and that fear became reality in the house of the undying" or some shit.

Irri dying is just NOT COOL. shes hot!!! and has lots of lesbo scenes with dany! wtf cant die >_<

[baudib]

Was it made clear that Jorah had betrayed Dany in Season 1?

[JKDS]

Im pretty sure it was just a bunch of subtle 1 liners and mini scenes. I swear some ppl in KL vaguely mentioned mormont when talking about dany, and Jorah had a few scenes where he was clearly lying to dany in order to get away and receive/send messages.

I remember for a fact that theres a scene that Jorah makes up an excuse to leave for a sec, then accepts his royal pardon from a little ethiopian kid.

[baudib]

It feels like they are condensing a lot of the Dany plotline. It's a little early for the sexual tension with Jorah to be coming to a head, isn't it?

I realize the Dany story is loooong and doesn't seem to go anywhere for long stretches. But in the books, she is a lot like Moses wandering the desert with her flock; the show has made it seem like, at this point, she's all alone in the world except for Jorah, with most of her beloved retainers killed off. Which leaves her as just the Mother of Dragons and the Mercenary Queen.

[JKDS]

It was sort of that way in the books too though. Book 2 didnt have very much Dany at all in it. Her story was in qarth, she had the visions, and then she left and book 3 happens. iirc, the last event in B2 for her was meeting Ser Barristan the Old and then its B3 where she gets her unsullied and really starts to have a hoard.

I think youre right about them speeding up the sexual tension though

[baudib]

The more I think about it, there's very little in Dany's storyline that needs to match up, timeline-wise, with events in Westeros, so I really thought they could do almost anything by now. For example, it'd be plausible to write season 2 of GoT where Dany has an army of eunuchs by episode 7, and Selmy is by her side instead of Jorah.

Um, I don't understand where they are going exactly with Jon Snow. I love Ygritte and all, but Halfhand ordering Snow to kill him is a major fucking plotline that hasn't happened, and I don't know how they are going to do that now.

[dranger7070]

Agreed, in the books he was more 'forced' to become a wildling due to following orders. Now if he does it looks like hes just bitching out. Nitpicking but still pretty lame in my eyes... :/

[JKDS]

Ned Stark takes 6 knights with him to save Lyanna from the Tower of Joy where she was held by 3 of Aery II's kings guard. These knights were absent during the rebellion, and it is believed they would have made a difference in the lannister take over of KL and the deatlh of the mad king.

It was at the Tower of Joy, that Lyanna made Ned promise something. Only Ned and his friend Howland Reed survived...and now with Ned dead only Reed knows what Lyanna made Ned promise.

It was not long after this, that Ned returned from the war to winterfell with the bastard Jon Snow. I think hes definitely the son of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, and Lyanna was protected by the kingsguard so that the son of the Prince could be defended during the war.

Interestingly enough, Howland Reed (the only one who knows the promise) is the father of Jojen and Meera (the greenseers helping bran).

Also ya, theyre gonna make jon a turn cloak it seems wtf :/

[baudib]

yeah, it honestly bothers me. Judging by non-spoiler threads, viewers think that Snow is going to get lured away from his brothers by the lure of pussy, and frankly, the way the show is going, that makes sense. But that's not at all who Jon Snow is in the books, and is a major problem IMO.

[JKDS]

Im hoping that what ends up happening...is that Jon gets captured...and halfhand's group also get captured. They get to speak, and then halfhand tells him to kill him etc and he joins the wildlings...instead of just straight up breaking his vows and turning his cloak. I wont be able to accept that

[JKDS]

Lately when im bored, i like going to the other forums and looking at what they think.

I think its f-ing hilarious how theres debates and discussions over whether LF recognized Arya or not

[Renton]

Sigh, there was no good reason to show bran and rickon until the end of the season... Having 3 episodes with no footage of them would have been the best shot at suspending disbelief that they were killed by Theon.

Looks like they are vastly accelerating the Jaime plotline which is pretty fucking great.

[baudib]

Im hoping that what ends up happening...is that Jon gets captured...and halfhand's group also get captured. They get to speak, and then halfhand tells him to kill him etc and he joins the wildlings...instead of just straight up breaking his vows and turning his cloak. I wont be able to accept that

That was a good call, I should have trusted in HBO.

sigh, there was no good reason to show bran and rickon until the end of the season... Having 3 episodes with no footage of them would have been the best shot at suspending disbelief that they were killed by Theon.

this

Looks like they are vastly accelerating the Jaime plotline which is pretty fucking great.

THIS

I'm not exactly sure I like how they did the Catelyn thing though, it just makes her look like an incompetent weakling.

I liked the episode, surprised some people didn't.

-- Very touching, emotional scenes with Tyrion. Someone remind me, Cersei actually did have Shae killed in the book, right? That led to the "your joy turn to ashes in your mouth" quote.
-- The flirtation with Talisa finally consummated. I think they went to great lengths in this episode to truly show that Robb Stark, his chosen love, Talisa, and Tyrion are clearly made of different moral fiber than the Lannisters, and reminded us of what an evil bitch Cersei was after a shocking moment of tenderness/sympathy for Sansa.
-- Stannis/Dany scenes were throwaways.

[Renton]

No Tyrion finds Shae in Tywin's bed, remember?

[bikes]

REEEEEEK

[JKDS]

No sansa beatings this episode made me sad. Im also disappointed Ser Dantos hasnt made any attempt to contact her yet.

Still no greenseers. Im guessing their plan is to have them meet bran on the road. I cant honestly see Bran wandering the north with Hodor alone. Also, +1 to delaying the reveal that they were alive.

Dany's scenes are sucking more than her chapters

Stannis just appeared super weak and needy having to explain all that Storms End island crap. Now he appears as just a whiney brother that isnt getting his way instead of the scary version of ned stark.

Cait, meh. She is weak, and she did let jaime go because she was weak. I wish they would have showed Jaime promising the return of her daughters though, as thats one of the major things that changes how we view him.

This episode seemed just silly to me really. Idk if it was rushed or something, but it didnt feel the same as the others. Kinda hard to explain i guess.

The preview for the next episode and had a lot of fire...but it wasnt green like the wildfire was supposed to be. W/e, i just hope they use it in an awesome enough way to make up for Tyrion not having a giant navy defeating chain.

[baudib]

I think it's pretty clear that Osha is going to be Bran's mystic guide.

Stannis is just a huge lifenit and his brief scene just further illustrates why he's a fine soldier and loyal subject but a terrible ruler.

I don't think the reader's view of Jamie really changes until he loses his hand.

[JKDS]

Ya, i guess your right on the jaime front. He gets his first chapters during the beginning of his release and i might have just liked him better for them lol

[baudib]

Are they abandoning the whole part about Arya turning into Nymeria in her dreams?

[JKDS]

Oh man, i cant wait for jaime and theon to get whats coming to them. I hope bolton takes winterfell Sunday too, instead of saving that scene for the last episode.

@Baudib: Im rereading book 2, and arya just killed the first dude. She may have had wolf dreams already, but im not really sure. If she did, they were like passing thoughts and she didnt pay them any attention in contrast to bran's dreams. So it could be that the show is ignoring them because they havent happened yet...or because they seem unimportant to the character. Idk

[bikes]

REEK REEK RHYMES WITH LEEK.

The series is only making me realize how much more I hate all the Dany parts. Please let Aegon be legit and not a pretender and have him kill Dany imo.

On another note I'm very happy that GRM let the show's writers know how the story ends so if fat man river kicks the bucket i won't rage until eternity like firefly people do