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toontown
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02-03-2005, 11:02 PM
Post subject: Regarding Dukesoccer, from Education of a Poker Player
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6
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Couldn't help but think of this excerpt from the old book "Education of a Poker Player" when reading the posts. In this passage, Monty, the operator of the local poker room catches a cheater. The cheater, Lolly, explains that there is very little moral difference (if any) between cheating and outplaying.
From “Education of a Poker Player”
When Lolly didn’t answer, Monty yelled, “Where’d you learn to deal seconds?”
“I don’t know what you mean." Lolly answered innocently.
“You can tell me about it or I’ll break both those beautiful goddamned hands of yours.”
The stranger eyed Monty’s huge fists but showed no fear. “All right,” he said in an even voice, “I was dealing seconds. How did you know?”
“They make a slight swish when you pull them from the deck, as you damn well know. How much did you win? The kid says you took out one hundred dollars.” He turned to me. “Bring in his chips.” I brought them and told Monty they added up to 425.
“Where’d you learn these tricks?” Monty asked.
“From my Uncle Charley. He was a magician.”
“Don’t you ever feel sorry for the suckers you fleece?”
“No I don’t. My method is painless. I give them the ax. You bleed them to death slowly.”
“Curious philosophy for a card sharp.”
“Not for a realist. You remind me of a friend I hunt ducks with. He says it’s unsportsmanslike to kill ducks with large caliber shotguns. He uses a 20 gauge, a small bore, and kills more ducks than I do with my blunderbuss. I wonder whether it’s less painful to die by his gun than mine. The ducks might give a surprising answer.”
“At least the players get a gamble here.” Monty insisted.
“Between themselves they do. Not with you playing.”
“Why not? I told you the game is on the level.”
“With one exception. You won’t play unless you know you have the best hand. I won’t play unless I know I have the best hand unless I deliberately want another to win. Will you play with a weak hand?”
“Hell no”
“Will a sucker?”
“The sucker doesn’t know what a good hand is. That’s the reason he’s a sucker.”
“Monty,” said the stranger, “I heard the kid call you that-it’s an old matter of debate. Something like how many angels can stand on the point of a needle. You win on superior experience and finesse; I win because I’m a card manipulator. You deal with percentages; I deal seconds. Essentially we’re no different. In the end we both bleed the sucker.”
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Yes, but one set of skills or talents is accepted as the game we are playing. We are competing with our talents at poker not card dealing.
Like in chess, pointing over "there!" and switching pieces around. Amung poker players, it is a contest of skill not a contest of quick card motions and shuffling pieces.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Ayce
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There is a world of difference between cheating and competing. It's like robbing a shop as opposed to getting the best possible price. Putting it simply cheating is theft. You cannot beat a competent cheater but you can always aspire to beat a great player.
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Corey
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,349
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a person with a first post here about dukesoccer interesting
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Corey
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Corey
a person with a first post here about dukesoccer interesting
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It's not DukeSoccer.
This had a very good point and wasn't jeuvinille.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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DukeSoccer's IP address was banned. It's very unlikely that he'll be back.
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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I like lolly.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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A friend or colluding brother?
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LOL OPERATIONS
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Like in chess...
-'rilla
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Ummhmm...bringing up chess again I see.
- Jeffrey
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toontown
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02-05-2005, 12:03 AM
Post subject: Not Dukesoccer's brother...
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#10 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6
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I'm not a colluding brother by any means. I am the guy that told Duke about this site though, and what a great resource it is. I do play poker against him online quite a bit, and I respect his play. I think you guys were pretty hard on him, (although I didn't get a chance to read any of his posts because they were all deleted by the time I got here and maybe he had it coming). While this is my first post on the site, I have been a fan and a reader for a long time. I did experiment with collusion once in my early days. I found that it wasn't worth the time or the energy, (or the risk of being banned) and I found that the time and concentration it required interfered with my focus on the game. I do however feel that having some experience with collusion enables one to protect against it, just as experience at manipulating a deck helps one to spot it. I play better straight up, and I prefer to work on developing my instincts and my game rather than working on tricks. If you guys would have given Duke half a chance you would have found that he is of the same mindset, at least from my experience in talking to him at the tables.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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he was banned from the chatroom, then proceded to immediately spam the forums as if he didn't want a second chance.
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Xianti
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02-05-2005, 01:09 AM
Post subject: Re: Not Dukesoccer's brother...
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#12 (permalink)
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by toontown
If you guys would have given Duke half a chance you would have found that he is of the same mindset, at least from my experience in talking to him at the tables.
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There are no second chances here.
Whatever he did before doesn't matter to me. It's when he blew his lid and bombarded our forums with porn pics and dozens of duplicate spam messages that he crossed the line.
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Fortune 500
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bluffalupagus
Posts: 1,261
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We all make mistakes. Sure, we kidded him about it a little, but it was his reactions that got him in trouble.. he waivered from apologetic to damn near proud of what he did. In the chat rooms he basically bragged about it and that's not the kind of play that the fine folks here at FTR promote. It got him kicked... then banned. His reactions over here were juvenile, childish... and while the pr0n was nice and all, it just wasn't appropriate.
Toon, you'll be fine here. Welcome aboard. We won't hold past mistakes against you, but collusion is immoral, illegal, and not really necessary. I know you're saying it was in the past, and you'll find the folks here accomodating. As long as you're decent to us, we're decent to you. It's a good place to learn...
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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I honestly can't agree with you at all. The guy was bragging in irc how he colludes but can't get caught at his poker venue. He was then banned from our chat because of it. We take cheating or any other dishonest demeanor very seriously. He then tried to "talk shit" as he said in our forums and acted very immaturely. It's amazing given the anonymity of the internet how childish people can be. He then started posting porno pics of what looked like very youngs, illegal teens. In no way does he deserve a second chance. We're all very easy going here but actions like that are not tolerated at all.
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LOL OPERATIONS
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ttanaka
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,184
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Yeah, I agree with the response here.
Toontown, I don't agree he was of the same mindset as you, and jeez, definitely not of the same maturity level. He defended colluding, and once he felt heat from the honest folks here, he decided to go ballistic.
This forum wasn't for him. And he wasn't for us. No one here was too harsh on him, he was extremely immature, and just not of the caliber of the folks we want to attract.
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toontown
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02-05-2005, 05:41 PM
Post subject: well thanks for the welcome
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#16 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6
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Like I said I have been around here for awhile and I reccomend the site to a lot of people. Keep up the good work.
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