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EasyT
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06-19-2008, 03:12 PM
Post subject: Politics, USA
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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Hi, all.
Is anyone interested in getting involved in some honest conversation about 2008 politics? I don't want to clutter up this forum with a bunch of political talk, but I was thinking about setting up a forum for this, if enough people are interested.
I am really interested in having an open and honest dialogue with other undecided voters. I am really not interested in having folks spew party-line rhetoric. I'm not interested in aggravating flamers and devil's-advocates. I want to have a place to share real opinions and read others opinions.
PMs welcome.
Todd
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Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
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grnydrowave2
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06-19-2008, 03:19 PM
Post subject: Re: Politics, USA
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#2 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Showin' mah Pokemans
Posts: 651
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EasyT
I am really not interested in having folks spew party-line rhetoric. I'm not interested in aggravating flamers and devil's-advocates. I want to have a place to share real opinions and read others opinions.
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Welcome to the internet. You've come to the right place. 
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<SrslySirius> Hal Lubarsky, my nemesis.
<SaltLick> are you seriously losing to a blind guy
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Galapogos
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06-19-2008, 03:23 PM
Post subject: Re: Politics, USA
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#3 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by grnydrowave2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EasyT
I am really not interested in having folks spew party-line rhetoric. I'm not interested in aggravating flamers and devil's-advocates. I want to have a place to share real opinions and read others opinions.
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Welcome to the internet. You've come to the right place. |
Fuck you Nazi!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
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 @ this thread 
FWIW, I think both candidates are the best each party has cranked out in my lifetime.
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EasyT
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06-19-2008, 03:34 PM
Post subject: Re: Politics, USA
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#5 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by grnydrowave2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EasyT
I am really not interested in having folks spew party-line rhetoric. I'm not interested in aggravating flamers and devil's-advocates. I want to have a place to share real opinions and read others opinions.
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Welcome to the internet. You've come to the right place. |
Fuck you Nazi! |
LOL.
I appreciate humor. There's no malice there.
But point taken. My intent may not be possible in this medium.
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grnydrowave2
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06-19-2008, 04:14 PM
Post subject: Re: Politics, USA
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#7 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Showin' mah Pokemans
Posts: 651
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by grnydrowave2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EasyT
I am really not interested in having folks spew party-line rhetoric. I'm not interested in aggravating flamers and devil's-advocates. I want to have a place to share real opinions and read others opinions.
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Welcome to the internet. You've come to the right place. |
Fuck you Nazi! |
See, this is what happens when you start a thread about politics. Godwin's Law satisfied in the 3rd post.
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<SrslySirius> Hal Lubarsky, my nemesis.
<SaltLick> are you seriously losing to a blind guy
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a500lbgorilla
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06-19-2008, 04:23 PM
Post subject: Re: Politics, USA
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#8 (permalink)
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by grnydrowave2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by grnydrowave2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EasyT
I am really not interested in having folks spew party-line rhetoric. I'm not interested in aggravating flamers and devil's-advocates. I want to have a place to share real opinions and read others opinions.
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Welcome to the internet. You've come to the right place. |
Fuck you Nazi! |
See, this is what happens when you start a thread about politics. Godwin's Law satisfied in the 3rd post. |
Fuck you, Nazi-sympathizer!
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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Hi, my name is Santa Claus, and I would like to participate in a political thread without it getting totally partisan as well.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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This election sucks because neither choice is clearly correct. Its leading a lot of undecided people to just go "fuck it, whatever" and thats -EV.
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BennyLaRue
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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In my opinion, McCain is older than Moses.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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as an undecided voter who is in his second election, i'm already disenfranchised with the entire system. Some old people present me with 2 choices and I'm left to say, "I don't wanna vote for either of these fuckers. Daaad! Who are you voting for?"
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
as an undecided voter who is in his second election, i'm already disenfranchised with the entire system.
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Most people are.
Probably because it sucks.
The two party system is fucked, the government is run by lobbyists, and voters are forced to choose between diarrhea and slightly loose stool.
Small wonder voters are disenfranchised with the whole process...
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The reason I don't see the point in threads about politics is that nobody ever listens to each other.
So go ahead and prove me wrong one time.
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Aces
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 832
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
voters are forced to choose between diarrhea and slightly loose stool.
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lol
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dwarfman
The reason I don't see the point in threads about politics is that nobody ever listens to each other.
So go ahead and prove me wrong one time.
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Good sir, I find your opinion to be quite valid.
Most political 'discussions' online consist of a partisan circlejerk and/or flame war with the 'other' side. Most reasonable, moderate voices get sick of being outshouted by the partisantards, and just leave.
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dwarfman
The reason I don't see the point in threads about politics is that nobody ever listens to each other.
So go ahead and prove me wrong one time.
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If you engage in a discussion, you should never try to convince the person you're discussing with. That's impossible. Your goal should be to convince the people who are merely observing the debate.
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EasyT
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Most political 'discussions' online consist of a partisan circlejerk and/or flame war with the 'other' side. Most reasonable, moderate voices get sick of being outshouted by the partisantards, and just leave.
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All too true. And this is my point. I'm willing to set up a board for the honest discussion of issues. To avoid partisantards, I might have to make it Invitation-Only. All opinions will be welcome. But bullshit will not be tolerated. If anyone is interested, I'll happily set it up.
I figure that there must be other people like myself who are genuinely undecided about the upcoming election. Who want to hear other people's opinions and discuss them. Who are sick of the network news on ABC and Fox. and who are unable to find an a forum that isn't full of partisantards and flamers. So I'm simply offering to create such a space...
Todd
EDIT: So I'm simply offering to TRY to create such a space...
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Political threads are valuable because occasionally people post facts (with appropriate citations) that other people weren't aware of. I'm willing to wade through all of the biased opinions for a few nuggets of new information.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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I think FTRers are pretty good at keeping things relatively civil these days, even if they have differing viewpoints. 'twasn't always so but that was then.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Fuck you, level-headed gentlemen!
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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fuck politics
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EasyT
Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Most political 'discussions' online consist of a partisan circlejerk and/or flame war with the 'other' side. Most reasonable, moderate voices get sick of being outshouted by the partisantards, and just leave.
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All too true. And this is my point. I'm willing to set up a board for the honest discussion of issues. To avoid partisantards, I might have to make it Invitation-Only. All opinions will be welcome. But bullshit will not be tolerated. If anyone is interested, I'll happily set it up.
I figure that there must be other people like myself who are genuinely undecided about the upcoming election. Who want to hear other people's opinions and discuss them. Who are sick of the network news on ABC and Fox. and who are unable to find an a forum that isn't full of partisantards and flamers. So I'm simply offering to create such a space...
Todd
EDIT: So I'm simply offering to TRY to create such a space... |
you will get infiltrated
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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expansion is usually a good idea. this board has a pretty strong community so a politics forum should go well.
however, its not necessarily gonna be that a politics forum here will answer that many questions or be too accurate. kinda doesn't matter in some ways, but if the purpose is to learn real solid info then chances are we wont get it. this is related to the understanding of the board members and politics. it seems that this board doesn't care much more or have a deeper understanding than average, but may be im wrong.
a good example is go to internet infidels board and check out their science/philosophy stuff then go to 2p2 and check out their science/philosophy stuff. you'll see a huuuuuge difference between the two boards. internet infidels is an excellent place for sciency things because its a board full of scientists, whereas 2p2 is not. i make this distinction because on 2p2 youll see just as many, if not more, people posting opinions they believe to be fact about science than on infidels, yet they are soooooo misinformed.
having said that, a politics forum is probably a good idea since those who develop a presence on this board are probably a wee bit higher than average on IQ.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
This election sucks because neither choice is clearly correct. Its leading a lot of undecided people to just go "fuck it, whatever" and thats -EV.
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No clear, correct choice? Damn, we should have some kind of thingy where we can vote for who we like more. How do we fix this?
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LOL OPERATIONS
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boost
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06-20-2008, 02:29 AM
Post subject: Re: Politics, USA
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#26 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by grnydrowave2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by grnydrowave2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EasyT
I am really not interested in having folks spew party-line rhetoric. I'm not interested in aggravating flamers and devil's-advocates. I want to have a place to share real opinions and read others opinions.
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Welcome to the internet. You've come to the right place. |
Fuck you Nazi! |
See, this is what happens when you start a thread about politics. Godwin's Law satisfied in the 3rd post. |
Fuck you, Nazi-sympathizer! |
youre such a commie jew.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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I am really interested in having an open and honest dialogue with other undecided voters. I am really not interested in having folks spew party-line rhetoric.
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Haha, I admit that I can be guilty of this at times.
Anyway it's good hearing from you Todd.. you should post here more often. It's been a while.
If you set the board up, I'd probably drop in every once in a while to stir things up. I'm pretty decent at that. 
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flomo
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mashing potatoes
Posts: 878
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hey todd
someone called you santa claus
which is correct for when we could low limit bonus whore
hope things are going good or better yet great for you
mike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Protect dog
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
This election sucks because neither choice is clearly correct. Its leading a lot of undecided people to just go "fuck it, whatever" and thats -EV.
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No clear, correct choice? Damn, we should have some kind of thingy where we can vote for who we like more. How do we fix this? |
In the long line of dumb things you've posted, this might take the cake. I was clearly saying "i dont like either candidate better than the other, and therefore there is no point"
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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how about the drill here, drill now, pay less camp by newt gingerich. i fully fuckin support this. people say, oh well it wont even be producing for 5 years. thats just a bad excuse imo. 10 years from now people will be using the same excuse, that it'll take too long, but if we build now, we will be very happy we did it. idk about the rest of you guys, but i do not like pumping tons of money into the saudi's when we dont have to.
there is just such an insane amount of oil along the coasts, in the gulf, and in the rockies to not do it. people need to stop worrying if a fucking squirrel loses its home, and worry about humans and their needs. if i were the saudi's i would be laughing my ass off at us.
people also worry about oil spills. a legitimate concern. all i have to say about that is hurricane katrina. rigs got demolished, no spills.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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It's a politically smart move for the GOP to bring this up now. It'll do squat for gas prices short-term but with polls showing Obama viewed as being more trustworthy on energy policy than McCain, the Republicans might make up some ground by pounding Obama on this, as most Americans support it. It's a tarp, Barry!
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Im not sure. I agree that its politically smart because the GOP can say "we want to drill and those democrats wont let us! vote for us!" but between five and ten years IS a long time to see any effect, so I'm not entirely sure it will accomplish anything.
We should have drilled and been drilling for a long, long time ago, but the fucking caribou man, the caribou.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by South Park's Douche and Turd Episode
Let's make our voices heard.
We've been given the right to choose,
between a douche and a turd.
It’s democracy in action!
Put your freedom to the test.
A big fat turd or a stupid douche,
which do you like best?
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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drilling is really only a good idea if we sit on our asses. if, however, we decide to put a shitton of money into other energy sources and researching new ones then drilling is waste.
the amount of oil we'd get would last maybe a decade, which is a decade more than what we'd have if we didnt, but the problem is that it would cost sooooooooo much money that would be better put into nuclear plants and nuclear fusion research.
fuck we'd likely already have the holy grail of energy sources, nuclear fusion, if the govt funded it as a priority all these years. but hey killing camel jockeys is more important dlo
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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Oil is expensive because it's traded in dollars, and the amount of dollars in the world has almost tripled for the past 8 years. The first step towards a solution would be to stop printing money.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up
Oil is expensive because it's traded in dollars, and the amount of dollars in the world has almost tripled for the past 8 years. The first step towards a solution would be to stop printing money.
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vnh
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Read. This was written in 2006, btw.
Quote:
There is an estimated 2 trillion barrels of oil buried beneath parts of Colorado, Utah and Wyoming. Geologists, petroleum companies and the federal government have known about these massive deposits for nearly a century. The trouble has always been: how do you get at it?
It is believed that the shale deposits in the Green River region of Colorado, Utah and Wyoming are holding the equivalent of approximately 1.5 trillion to 1.8 trillion barrels of oil. Called “oil shale” or “shale oil,” according to scientists and petroleum companies, much of it cannot be recovered with current technology due to the costly processing involved and the depth of the deposits buried beneath the Rocky Mountains.
Still, if only half can be extracted, scientists believe the amount is nearly triple the oil reserves of Saudi Arabia.
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http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...ssive_oil.html
It goes on to note that this oil is pretty low grade and more expensive to refine but it will work fine for cars. Oil companies just don't want to outlay the initial cost to drill it, transport it, and refine it. And why should they, a shrinking supply and a growing demand is like the holy grail of business.
I don't know what the answer is. Tax the shit out of the oil companies and use that money to let the government essentially hire them to drill? That seems to be the most common response. However it neglects the fact that the taxes will just be reflected in the price. That is, the price of oil would just rise and the costs would be sent to the consumer. Net effect of 0 on the oil company, it would all be paid by the populace.
My roomates plan is to have the government raise taxes and then, much like we do during a hurricane, make it illegal to raise the price. I think that'd definitely work. But thats one big big BIG step toward communism.
He tends to think with his gut, though.
I wish I was more informed.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Higher oil prices will make previously uneconomical deposits more attractive extraction targets. That's exactly what happened with our Alberta Tar Sands, which is where a huge amount of US oil now comes from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_sands
We are actually your #1 supplier, ahead of Saudi Arabia. Good thing we're friendly, huh?
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...nt/import.html
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EasyT
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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I knew there were peeps like me, interested in some open political discussion. PM me if you would join and utilize such a forum. If I get a few PMs, I'll set it up this week.
Not to clutter up this forum with my BS, but I would like to know WHOSE opinion decided that a decision to drill n ow would not have any effect on oil prices in the short term. It seems to me that part of the inflated prices has to do with some dubious speculators and futures trading.
I'm not the most informed person about this and the consensus seems to be that it would not effect prices in the short future. If I'm a futures trader of oil and the US begins prep for drilling, I don't think I'm running out to buy extra shares (which drives the price up) at that news. I know I must be missing something....right?
But I'm not sure the GOP can win the election no matter what. Too much damage has been done. BTW, I lean conservative, but I'm genuinely undecided wtf to think right now.
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
I don't know what the answer is. Tax the shit out of the oil companies and use that money to let the government essentially hire them to drill? That seems to be the most common response. However it neglects the fact that the taxes will just be reflected in the price. That is, the price of oil would just rise and the costs would be sent to the consumer. Net effect of 0 on the oil company, it would all be paid by the populace.
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Punishing those who actually provide the oil will be pretty bad.
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
My roomates plan is to have the government raise taxes and then, much like we do during a hurricane, make it illegal to raise the price. I think that'd definitely work. But thats one big big BIG step toward communism.
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This will most definitely not work. Price roofs have always caused shortages no matter what good it has been applied on. It was tried on oil during the seventies and if you look it up you'll see it was horrible. It's all about incentives really. If you artificially lower the price of something, people have more incentives to consume and less incentives to produce, which is exceptionally bad during a time of crisis. You can see examples on this everywhere. When it's been applied onfood the result have been starvation, when applied on housing (such as rent control) the result have been housing shortages and deterioration.
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