Originally Posted by givememyleg

is it just me or do all muslims look the same?

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

now you've done it...

Originally Posted by givememyleg

is it just me or do all muslims look the same?

Originally Posted by Phantaroth

Just because these guys do this, doesn't make all, or even most muslims like that. Christians hold up some pretty bad signs as well, although - not that bad.

Originally Posted by Seasider

Welcome to a few months ago; a few of the protesters involved have been criminally prosecuted.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoonpro...983936,00.html

Yuck the guardian I know, but it is good on the net.

etit: prosecuted criminally??? (I think its a GOOD thing they were)

Originally Posted by Phantaroth

Just because these guys do this, doesn't make all, or even most muslims like that. Christians hold up some pretty bad signs as well, although - not that bad.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

GOD HATES FAGS

EVERYTIME A FAG DIES AN ANGEL GETS ITS WINGS

Anyone remember that fun family?

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

Of course it doesn't, but the concensus feeling among the overwhelming majority of Christians is that the Christian funadamentalists that hold radical views are, for a lack of a better term, lunatics.

Even if Muslim leaders don't hold such views themselves, you don't see very many of them speaking out against such hatred. Muslims have been claiming they want acceptance, and in that interest you'd think there would be swift and very public denouncement of this type of behavior. The fact that Mulsim leadership seemingly turns a blind eye to blatant hatred and threats of violence is very disturbing to me.

In our politically correct society, minority groups are allowed certain liberties to say such things that a majority group simply could not get away with. Regardless of who the messenger is, no one should be allowed to spread such hate, and no one, irrespective of race or religious affiliation, should tolerate it.

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

Of course it doesn't, but the concensus feeling among the overwhelming majority of Christians is that the Christian funadamentalists that hold radical views are, for a lack of a better term, lunatics.

Even if Muslim leaders don't hold such views themselves, you don't see very many of them speaking out against such hatred. Muslims have been claiming they want acceptance, and in that interest you'd think there would be swift and very public denouncement of this type of behavior. The fact that Mulsim leadership seemingly turns a blind eye to blatant hatred and threats of violence is very disturbing to me.

In our politically correct society, minority groups are allowed certain liberties to say such things that a majority group simply could not get away with. Regardless of who the messenger is, no one should be allowed to spread such hate, and no one, irrespective of race or religious affiliation, should tolerate it.

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Agreed 100%. Also, Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount, and it should not be tolerated by anybody like DaNuts is saying.

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

Of course it doesn't, but the concensus feeling among the overwhelming majority of Christians is that the Christian funadamentalists that hold radical views are, for a lack of a better term, lunatics.

Even if Muslim leaders don't hold such views themselves, you don't see very many of them speaking out against such hatred. Muslims have been claiming they want acceptance, and in that interest you'd think there would be swift and very public denouncement of this type of behavior. The fact that Mulsim leadership seemingly turns a blind eye to blatant hatred and threats of violence is very disturbing to me.

In our politically correct society, minority groups are allowed certain liberties to say such things that a majority group simply could not get away with. Regardless of who the messenger is, no one should be allowed to spread such hate, and no one, irrespective of race or religious affiliation, should tolerate it.

Originally Posted by Xianti

b00st, I believe martin is talking strictly about the state of modern-day peoples. We're not talking about the age of the Crusaders or Conquerers here. I think the majority of the world, over all cultures, has become more civil, rational and tolerant ...

Originally Posted by Xianti

... since those times of evangelical mass murders.

Originally Posted by boostNslide

this is a silly statement. If you are allowed this then I cant point out that western nations have a history of an inordinate amount of imperialistic leaders who will stop at no ends to colonize the world. Its jsut that violent coups of democratically elected governments arent taboo for western powers, and it should not be tolerated by anybody. Yet strangely it has been for centuries.

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Agreed 100%. Also, Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount, and it should not be tolerated by anybody like DaNuts is saying.

Originally Posted by Xianti

b00st, I believe martin is talking strictly about the state of modern-day peoples. We're not talking about the age of the Crusaders or Conquerers here. I think the majority of the world, over all cultures, has become more civil, rational and tolerant since those times of evangelical mass murders.

Doing it in the name of religion has a certain extra feeling of evil that comes with it because such zealots actually believe what they are doing is morally correct. Now, doing it within the political game is a bit different. I'm not denying it's happened or happening nor am I saying it's right, but at least we know government politics is sinister no matter the culture.

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Agreed 100%. Also, Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount, and it should not be tolerated by anybody like DaNuts is saying.

Originally Posted by boostNslide

The golf war (part 1 and 2) had very strong religious undertones, do you think this was unintentional? Do you not believe that there are a large amount of soldiers on the ground that believe they are doing the work of god at least to some degree? Its done with a lot more finesse on our side, but come on.

Sure colonization and the crusades dont happen as they did in the 1500's, but that shit still goes down. Why do you think iran is the way it is today? Remember who was in charge over there before? Guess who put him in charge...

Originally Posted by Pokernub

LOL

Strange that from my perspective, 'radicalised' muslims and the american christain neo-conservatives look equaly mad

both belive in a god that isnt there, both dont tolerate minorites, both hold up some collection of texts written and complied by various men as the word of god.

The only differnce i can see is even a muslim leader is not stuipd enough to tell everyone God speaks to them. Like George Bush.

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

Of course it doesn't, but the concensus feeling among the overwhelming majority of Christians is that the Christian funadamentalists that hold radical views are, for a lack of a better term, lunatics.

Even if Muslim leaders don't hold such views themselves, you don't see very many of them speaking out against such hatred. Muslims have been claiming they want acceptance, and in that interest you'd think there would be swift and very public denouncement of this type of behavior. The fact that Mulsim leadership seemingly turns a blind eye to blatant hatred and threats of violence is very disturbing to me.

In our politically correct society, minority groups are allowed certain liberties to say such things that a majority group simply could not get away with. Regardless of who the messenger is, no one should be allowed to spread such hate, and no one, irrespective of race or religious affiliation, should tolerate it.

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

Even if Muslim leaders don't hold such views themselves, you don't see very many of them speaking out against such hatred. Muslims have been claiming they want acceptance, and in that interest you'd think there would be swift and very public denouncement of this type of behavior. The fact that Mulsim leadership seemingly turns a blind eye to blatant hatred and threats of violence is very disturbing to me.

Originally Posted by Xianti

b00st, I believe martin is talking strictly about the state of modern-day peoples. We're not talking about the age of the Crusaders or Conquerers here. I think the majority of the world, over all cultures, has become more civil, rational and tolerant since those times of evangelical mass murders.

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount

Originally Posted by Pelion

Either that or its in the media more .

Originally Posted by Phantaroth

The religion of Islam does allow for a violent interpretation

Originally Posted by Pelion

Outside of occupied palestine suicide bombings don't happen on a "regular basis". Inside occupied palestine they are far more sensibly described in a political context than a religious one. We arent talking about people blowing up "unbelievers" we are talking about people blowing up what they consider to be "invaders". Its true that they belive they are doing Gods work. Obviously that is the case for any religious fighter whether they are a suicide bomber, or a soldier in a traditional army who just happens to be religious. George Bush has said "God is on our side" hundreds of time since invading Afghanistan but his actions are based in politics far more than they are based in religion.

Suicide attacks are not restricted to muslims and they arent even the biggest users of them in recent history. The Japanese used them in the second world war. There have been a large number of suicide bombings in Chechnya since 2000. Before 2001 the majority of suicide bombings were done by the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka. The Tamil Tigers are from mostly Hindu families but the group itself is very anti-religion in general. They certainly werent muslims. In fact, most of their targets were. Sri Lanka isnt a part of the world our governments are particularly interested in right now though so it wasnt particularly in the news. The point is that suicide bombings dont go hand in hand with religion or even with fanatical religion. They go hand in hand with desperation and political conflict. When ever people feel that they have no other effective way to fight, but suicide bombing has a chance of achieving their political objectives they will resort to it. Suicide bombings in the occupied territories are not designed to convert people to islam. They are designed to coerce the israli government into leaving palestinian territories. Thats a pretty secular political goal just like the goals of almost every other organisation that uses suicide bombers as a weapon.

Originally Posted by miracleriver

“And slay them (the infidels) wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter” 2:191

"Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets victory soon shall we give him a reward of great (value)" 4:74

“Seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.” 4:89

“Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, and heal the breasts of the Believers” 9:14

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” 9:29

There is indeed no room whatsoever for a violent interpretation in islam!

Originally Posted by Phantaroth

I said it DOES.

You misread?

Originally Posted by Pelion

Either that or its in the media more . Every group in society has it's nutters. Islam is no different. If you start treating them differently either here with racism, or abroad by...erm... bombing their countries then you probably will increase the proportional number of radical nutters, but in general I dont think there are any more morons who are muslim than from any other religion.

You'll hear just as many ignorant white people saying stupid things like "just nuke the bastards" or "Bloody Pakis" as you will hear muslims (or christians) talking about crusades and killing unbelievers.

Originally Posted by Phantaroth

I said it DOES.

You misread?

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

There is a fundamental problem when your religion calls for you to kill anyone that oppresses you.

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

You have to remember that we're talking about a religion who's doctrine calls for armed combat in response to persecution. A large part of the problem is not simply the "crazies" but that the tenets of Islam support this kind of behavior.

For argument sake, ignore the actual people involved and instead focus on the religion itself. There is a fundamental problem when your religion calls for you to kill anyone that oppresses you.

Originally Posted by Old testiment

1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

2 and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

3 thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

6 ¶ If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7 namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8 thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9 but thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

12 ¶ If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,

13 Certain men, the children of Be'li-al, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;

14 then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

15 thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be a heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;

18 when thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

Originally Posted by Old testiment

And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die

Originally Posted by Phantaroth

Dueteronomy, Chapter 13 in the King James Bible mightttttttttt be worse then what is in the Kuran. Mostly because the various translations of the Kuran are kind of a bit different when it gets into those violent passages... I'd argue that some translations are much less violent then the translation that most westerners like to quote when citing Islam's call for violence.

Originally Posted by Pelion

My other favorite passages are excerpts from joshua (chapter 6) - the fall of jericho when the followers of proper God did as they were told and punished the "unbelievers".

This is pretty lovey dovy christian stuff huh?