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View Poll Results: Career-focus or Poker & Travel?
Take the job	16	41.03%
Take poker and travel	23	58.97%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

next steps - poker or work?

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daven

02-20-2009, 02:04 AM Post subject: next steps - poker or work?

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,801

I've got a decision to make sometime next week. Right now I work part-time and play a bit of poker. Gives me loads of time for climbing, surfing, whatever else I feel like. My fixed term contract is drawing to a close and I now have to decide between 2 options - taking a permanent job where I am OR playing poker and doing some more travel.
There are other options - e.g. I could look for a job elsewhere, but the role available is what I would be looking for....

1) The job - it's good career-wise, money is solid, managing an interesting team, role has loads of scope to move into whatever projects I'm interested in, working for someone I respect. Downside is that I would struggle to keep it to 40hrs a week and I'd pretty much have to be in one place for a while.

2) Poker and travel. I'm confident I can pull reasonable money playing poker - you don't have to be that good to do so.... Poker is very portable. I like travelling. Edit - i guess I should add that I've got a decent sample size of withdrawing >$2k/month while playing part-time....

so, yeah, those are the options. Any thoughts welcome.

edit - I copied some more background that I provide later in the post
I still haven't decided - my girlfriend is completely neutral (which is great! she's amazing, so it's hardly surprising). Friends are split. The few colleagues I would discuss this with are split. I'm in a great situation of having two amazing options to choose between...

A few pertinent points that I left out of the first post:

* I'm 31 years old
* I have nil commitments at the moment - a healthy savings account, no mortgage (then again, no house either), no family to support
* Health insurance isn't a consideration in NZ with our publicly funded system - most big employers don't offer it
* I have worked fulltime in the past - normally as a fixed-term contractor solving the "too hard to do it ourselves" problems of big organisations
* one of my motivations when I started working part-time last May was to see if poker could be a financially viable career - now I see that it is (short-term at least)
* I have travelled some - a bunch of time roadtripping in New Zealand, 1 year in South America, nearly two years in australia, six months in europe, some time in the middle east and asia
* If i take the job I will rarely, if ever, play poker during 2009. I enjoy poker a lot, but if I choose the job then I'll want to spend my spare time doing other things that I love
* The longer I leave it, the less likely I am to take a serious shot at poker. Conversely, the opportunity available right now is huge - equivalent to 2-3 years of normal career grinding. However, whenever I've looked for a career jump-start contract I've found one. One of my considerations when I went travelling instead of working after finishing study was that I could probably short-term contract myself in a few years to the same point that others would arrive at by working fulltime for a decade. It's worked out.

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

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Otter_Brothface

02-20-2009, 02:08 AM

#2 (permalink)

Two Pair

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 40

You have to pick poker and travel. When I was younger I went to alot of different country and saw the world. I got all the money I have from being a very good farmer but now I want to stop that so much and live poker dream.

We post in this place because poker is magic and if you work for the system you will lose your spark and your love for life. You need to live the dream. You need to get your choices set and see the real truth because too many people rot and die because of nice stablke jobs and big citys. I live in countryside awya from people. I have a dream to be a pro poker player.

I dont want to see an FTR guy join the system. I real sadens me.

Otter.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...er-t82033.html

JKDS

02-20-2009, 02:14 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: Chandler, AZ

Posts: 1,024

Since you are capable of living off of poker and are well aware of the risks involved and how to handle those risks, the question you should be considering is whether the job would give you a greater sense of selfworth. Without more info, i say poker for sure since it doesnt sound like this job would supply the kind of selfworth that, say... a firefighter might have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OngBonga

But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.

kfaess

02-20-2009, 02:21 AM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2008

Posts: 556

kfaess is an unknown quantity at this point

I say take the job. It sounds pretty stable and you'll always have vacation time for travel/free time for poker.

Go the safe route for now, keep improving as a poker player, and when you feel the time is right and your game is good enough then maybe give poker a shot?

L_Clan_Sup3rMaN

02-20-2009, 02:21 AM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2007

Posts: 833

L_Clan_Sup3rMaN is on a distinguished road

I would take the job and see how I like it, working there 40 hrs a week and doing poker part-time. If you find it too stressful and don't seem to enjoy it, then go to poker cuz poker isn't going away (hopefully!) but opportunities like that won't be always there. Plus the fact that staying home all the time or just having a lot of free time puts me on tilt would be a reason as well

AFchung

02-20-2009, 03:28 AM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: UCLA

Posts: 1,179

i'm a nit. take the job

you can pack up and leave to play poker any time. jobs dont always come around the corner, and you should realize how fortunate it is to have a job nowadays

http://afchung.blogspot.com/

LuckySlevin

02-20-2009, 03:38 AM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2008

Location: Live Poker Room

Posts: 1,050

LuckySlevin is an unknown quantity at this point

I say take the job and go full time when you're confident you can earn more playing poker full time than you can in your job =)

kb coolman

02-20-2009, 03:45 AM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 596

I have a hard time with this decision, because I'm a family man with a wife and two kids. So I obviously take the job.

But I'm not you, and I don't know the specifics of your life outside of what you've written in your operation thread. It seems to me that money and stability are not security issues for you as they are for many others. Your true passions revolve around climbing, travelling, and shared experiences.

So here's my advice. Take the job for now and see how it goes. No one says it has to be a long term commitment.

dev

02-20-2009, 06:42 AM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: swonging and swonging

Posts: 1,550

Poker.

Even though I voted I have to say this... I don't even think we can help you make this decision. Maybe you already made it and you want some backup?

You've traveled, you've had the security of a job, which do you like better?

Check out my self-deprecation here!

Erpel

02-20-2009, 08:06 AM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 605

I saw a post on 2+2 not too long ago with someone very successful (and I forget the name) who left poker and went into banking - his reasoning: After a while at a "low" salary he'd end up making more per year than he ever could with poker.

So, in the long term - what's more important to you and what's more profitable to you? You seem to use the word career quite unapologetically, so I think it's something to consider.

And another important question: Are you currently growing as a poker player? Have you "settled" at one limit, or do you still see yourself as someone who is learning and moving up?

The more you settle with a job and career - the less time you will have for poker. If you work a full week (and 40 hours is more your minimum hours than your average hours) do you have the drive to spend hours in addition to that "working" - studying poker? Or would you be more inclined to use what "little" spare time you have to play poker rather than study it? Would you grow as a player? (Seriously)

There's a set of answers to the above questions that will point due job and a set of answers to the above questions that will point due poker. And if it's a hard decision, I'd probably go with poker tbh. It's true that the earlier you make solid progress on a career the further it's likely to take you. It's equally true that poker is a job that can result in you having negative income some months - but in terms of transitions it's a much smaller transition to go from poker to a job than to get established with job, friends, hobbies, family - and then pulling the plug on the whole thing and devoting yourself to poker fulltime. In other words, I think if you do decide on the job for now you become increasingly less likely to pursue a fulltime poker career. Is that important to you? Maybe, maybe not.

From what I've read here and there and in your blog it seems as if you like being unattached and a free agent in the world - poker is great for that. But from what I read in this post, it sounds as if you are warming to the idea of a career and making something of yourself in that scene - if this is a really good opportunity maybe now is the time.

Only you can tell.

GatorJH

02-20-2009, 02:30 PM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: HotLanta

Posts: 3,179

your decision should not be based on the opinions of people you don't know.

I would bet that you know what you want to do and what the best decision is for you and your CURRENT situation. Do that.

Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.

bigslikk

02-20-2009, 03:19 PM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Chicago

Posts: 445

If it were me, I'd travel / poker. The broker the funnier. How often do these opportunities come up anyway?

Fuck, in a second I'd do it, just for the change of scenery. JEALOUS!!!

Of course make your own decision man but don't let fear, other people, etc. or other stupid shit cloud your better judgment

Gshark

02-20-2009, 04:37 PM

#13 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 65

You have to do what makes you happy. If you think you could be happy working the job and playing poker at night, on the weekends and vacations then I say do it. Save as much as you can.

If the idea of staying in one place for any length of time chafes you then I say get out and play poker while you can.

You only have one life. Do what feels right. And don't worry about what any of the rest of us think about it.

Thats my 2 cents.

kettleofish

02-20-2009, 04:46 PM

#14 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Helllllo Richard

Posts: 333

At the risk of sounding like a rudderless hippy, you strike me as a bit of a wanderer Daven. I say embrace the opportunity poker has given you to indulge that

There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.

Micro2Macro

02-21-2009, 08:33 AM

#15 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: http://three-pair.com/

Posts: 4,460

It really depends on your goals and the type of lifestyle you desire. If you absolutely can't make up your mind, remember that poker will always be there. That job, maybe not so much, but I'm sure other offers will come around.

"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

nUFamn

02-21-2009, 02:17 PM

#16 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2006

Posts: 106

Look for a job at a university... I work at one and feel that the employment fits a poker player perfectly! We accrue vacation at a sick rate, so once I build a roll and can win a satellite to a Vegas tournament, I'll be able to hop on that plane and still receive a paycheck for my time away from the office.

Health insurance, retirement funding, etc. are all nice to have in a job too. Sure, you can do those yourself, but I'd have to be making an assload playing poker to do that. (One day, hopefully! But not now. Maybe you're in a different boat...)

"Let me tell ya how the internet screwed up poker, okay. When a guy sucks out on the river, on the internet, you cannot take the guy out in the parking lot and you cannot break his fuckin' knees." (Deuce Fairbanks)

badgers

02-21-2009, 06:51 PM

#17 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Spewing

Posts: 3,372

I voted for poker so there is 9 votes each!

FTR is split, it's your decision

I don't think you can make a big mistake either way though, which is a good thing. Looks like you have two good options to take, so don't lose sleep on trying to decide what to do, just do what you want!

3k post - Return of the blog!

RML604

02-22-2009, 12:00 AM

#18 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2008

Posts: 166

The most important question in my mind is what will make you happy? And that doesn't necessarily mean what would you enjoy doing more. Because maybe you would enjoy poker more, but your family's lifestyle would be different because you weren't making as much cash, and maybe that would get to you.

Will you be able to handle the stress of supporting yourself and family on a poker income that swings up and down?

If this were me, I would assume I was taking the job (before I actually took it) and then see if I could convince myself to go the poker route. I personally couldn't b/c a well-paying 40 hour job that is enjoyable sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.

I don't think you're really looking for anyone here to make up your mind for you, so I think the poll is useless. But I think people here bring up good points that you should definitely consider before doing anything.

GL!!!

dranger7070

02-22-2009, 01:16 AM

#19 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy

Posts: 2,524

dranger7070 has a little shameless behaviour in the past

lol I voted poker and travel so once again, its split. Like everyone has been saying, you seem to be the nomad type that doesn't like to settle. I'm not you, but from your blog you seem to like to travel, and I really don' think you'll like the 9-5 40+ hours a week kind of job.

You won't have any time to do the things you love, (poker, traveling, etc) so I say take poker and run with it, until you feel you are ready to settle down. Then again, you have to do what makes you happy.

Good luck!

HarleyGuy13

02-22-2009, 01:44 AM

#20 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: Oregon

Posts: 1,226

If it were me I'd take dranger's and nUFamn's avatars and travel the world looking for stackx avatar. And when I found her my life would be complete!

Honestly when I read this the first thing I thougt was "Take the job until you are posting in the 200nl thread. But then I remembered from our conversations you are much younger than I. So if I woke up in your position I would probably put a plan together. I would set a timeline as to how long I was going to do the gypsy poker thing and then once I had done that for the set amount of time I'd get my ass busy with a good job. But do what you enjoy for now but always have a plan.

"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Do you have testicles? If so, learn to bet like it

birdman417

02-22-2009, 02:03 AM

#21 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: US

Posts: 82

Im also a nit...take the job...it sounds like poker is a viable back-up to any job you take...use poker as the back up if you hate the job...but if you take the poker...the job might not be there if something happens to the poker (tho i dont know what that would be)

Besides being a nit, im also a dad..insurance, retirement and benefits go a LONG way with my decisions.

my 2 cents

birdman

OhBollocks

02-22-2009, 06:21 AM

#22 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2008

Location: Dublin

Posts: 240

Pokah takes the lead!

Honestly I think it depends on how old you are and whether or not youve done any significant travel already. Theres ample time for responsiblity when ur older and I for one am so happy I did a lot of travelling before I settled down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISF

Nothing actually changes in a poker game besides equity....
When we can maximize our equity, we will make lots and lots of money.

daven

02-23-2009, 12:29 AM

#23 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,801

wow - thanks heaps for all the feedback. I continue to be impressed by the level of thinking/intelligence to be found here. As several of you have noted, I didn't post this so that FTR would make my decision for me. I posted hoping for good feedback and considerations that I may not have come across on my own. Thanks to all those who have taken time to help me with this!!! I still haven't decided - my girlfriend is completely neutral (which is great! she's amazing, so it's hardly surprising). Friends are split. The few colleagues I would discuss this with are split. I'm in a great situation of having two amazing options to choose between...

A few pertinent points that I left out of the first post:

* I'm 31 years old
* I have nil commitments at the moment - a healthy savings account, no mortgage (then again, no house either), no family to support
* Health insurance isn't a consideration in NZ with our publicly funded system - most big employers don't offer it
* I have worked fulltime in the past - normally as a fixed-term contractor solving the "too hard to do it ourselves" problems of big organisations
* one of my motivations when I started working part-time last May was to see if poker could be a financially viable career - now I see that it is (short-term at least)
* I have travelled some - a bunch of time roadtripping in New Zealand, 1 year in South America, nearly two years in australia, six months in europe, some time in the middle east and asia
* If i take the job I will rarely, if ever, play poker during 2009. I enjoy poker a lot, but if I choose the job then I'll want to spend my spare time doing other things that I love
* The longer I leave it, the less likely I am to take a serious shot at poker. Conversely, the opportunity available right now is huge - equivalent to 2-3 years of normal career grinding. However, whenever I've looked for a career jump-start contract I've found one. One of my considerations when I went travelling instead of working after finishing study was that I could probably short-term contract myself in a few years to the same point that others would arrive at by working fulltime for a decade. It's worked out.

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

a500lbgorilla

02-23-2009, 01:02 AM

#24 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

{moved from BC at authors request}

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

nightmoves44

02-23-2009, 03:27 AM Post subject: hmm

#25 (permalink)

High Card

Join Date: Oct 2007

Posts: 14

I would have to say work,take the job because,Im sure you will be provided medical insurance for you and family,if you have a family.Plus you will get a 401k plan Im guessing.The medical insurance is well worth the job,have you priced med insurance for a person lately?Now if you made $250,000 a year in poker ya may choose the poker route.

flomo

02-23-2009, 04:51 AM

#26 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: mashing potatoes

Posts: 878

i'm an american conservative nit, so you should go with the poker thing now

GOGOGO

i would guess that the americans are voting take the job
that is plain silly
GO POKERING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

Protect dog

thizzSantaCruz

02-23-2009, 05:48 AM

#27 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Santa Cruz

Posts: 894

Send a message via AIM to thizzSantaCruz

im gonna vote job for the only reason that i know myself personally could not make it playing poker solely for my living. i need more social interaction and the ability to achieve set goals and see results (besides the money number going up in the cashier screen). i have no idea what your situation is, I know you will do whats right for you.

Flopping quads and boats like its my job

oskar

02-23-2009, 08:56 PM

#28 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz

Posts: 2,452

Lets see:

[ ] Full time job
[ ] Permanent Vacation

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Ltrain

02-23-2009, 09:58 PM

#29 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Miami, Florida

Posts: 514

You are 31. If you see having kids, go the job route. If no kids, poker. IMO the grind of the ups and downs would be very difficult with kids, steady health benefits are important with kids, plus you can't travel much when the kids are little.

"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.

Shake_N_Bake

02-23-2009, 10:17 PM

#30 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: Casper, WY

Posts: 14

Americans have had it drummed into them from the time they are born that hard work and a good job will take care of everything. Life is not about how much you work or how much money you make. It is supposed to be about living. Don't get roped into the things that will force you to work for someone else for your entire life. You have avoided them to this point, keep it that way. No one on their death bed ever said they wished they had worked more. Make the brain dead cubicle masses insanely jealous and actually live your life. Travel, have fun and experience new things all the time knowing that they will never have that chance because they followed the safe route.

at BK 88

02-23-2009, 10:22 PM

#31 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: Charlottesville, VA

Posts: 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ltrain

Thats a great point IMO. I'm still a noob, but if it were me I'd travel and play poker for a few years until I had my fill, then find somewhere I had traveled to that I really like, see if I could get a work visa, and get a career there, especially if I wanted kids.
Good luck with your decision!

BankItDrew

02-23-2009, 11:52 PM

#32 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: Losing Prop Bets

Posts: 2,789

BankItDrew will become famous soon enough

no responsibilities means i take the poker route

Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!

Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?

Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?

OhBollocks

02-25-2009, 08:18 PM

#33 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2008

Location: Dublin

Posts: 240

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shake_N_Bake

Life is not about how much you work or how much money you make. It is supposed to be about living. No one on their death bed ever said they wished they had worked more.

Quoted for motherfucking truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISF

Nothing actually changes in a poker game besides equity....
When we can maximize our equity, we will make lots and lots of money.

Ash256

02-26-2009, 06:24 PM

#34 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: UK

Posts: 1,760

How much savings/br do you have?

Listen to my music

flomo

02-26-2009, 06:41 PM

#35 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: mashing potatoes

Posts: 878

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarleyGuy13

If it were me I'd take dranger's and nUFamn's avatars and travel the world looking for stackx avatar. And when I found her my life would be complete!

hangchong's(sp) avatar also

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

Protect dog

daven

02-26-2009, 10:21 PM

#36 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,801

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash256

How much savings/br do you have?

savings - enough to live in the style I'm accustomed to for about three years
bankroll - well, I keep withdrawing. But online around $7k at the moment I think?

anyway, decision made.
I realised that it wasn't between work and poker, it was between career commitment and not. I chose not... off to read the age of reason now

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

xpaand

03-02-2009, 06:18 AM

#37 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Vancouver

Posts: 289

I think you should do what I'm doing at the moment. I work and go to school at the same time (which I calculate to be about 50 hours / week). Every other moment I have, unless I'm being social (hanging out with friends, going out, etc.) I play poker! But if you were to pick one...

Take the job, and if you truly enjoy it, then it's worth it. If not, quit as soon as you can and do the poker thing.

OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".

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