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View Poll Results: Am I owed money?
Yes	2	12.50%
No	14	87.50%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

Money/Staking Question

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Reidak

01-03-2009, 12:33 AM Post subject: Money/Staking Question

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Toronto

Posts: 566

Hey everyone.

There is a dispute right now over a bit of money. The deal was me and a friend were going to stake this guy to play live. This guy is my friends brother. We said 50/50. I took $225 and my friend took 75, so i was getting 37.5% he was getting the 12.5%.

His bro went broke in a couple hours. Now, my friend is under the impression he doesn't owe me the $225.

From MSN:

ok stakeback is still over time...
and its off the winnings you take stakeback but w.e. figure it out with him
josh - toronto shootings down 15% from 2007, homicides up 41%.... you're doing it wrong! says (8:32 PM):
if you didnt mention the stakeback to him
then its on you
josh - toronto shootings down 15% from 2007, homicides up 41%.... you're doing it wrong! says (8:33 PM):
because i made this deal with the stakeback agreement
Brent...missing you says (8:33 PM):
the stakeback still means nothing
because stakeback is off winnings
josh - toronto shootings down 15% from 2007, homicides up 41%.... you're doing it wrong! says (8:33 PM):
it has alot to do with everything
no dude. stakeback is my stake - back
as in
my stake
225
back

Also have a screenshot of our msn convo about this. I clearly mention that this agreement involves stakeback.

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Jack Sawyer

01-03-2009, 01:02 AM

#2 (permalink)

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thizzSantaCruz

01-03-2009, 01:04 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

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I have no idea what stakeback is but when staking someone if they lose your money your shit out of luck.

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Jack Sawyer

01-03-2009, 01:06 AM

#4 (permalink)

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think about this: where is your risk, if every horse you stake went broke and you somehow still got paid?

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Reidak

01-03-2009, 01:33 AM

#5 (permalink)

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vote

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Parasurama

01-03-2009, 01:41 AM

#6 (permalink)

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When you stake someone you are assuming the loss if he busts. It's just like investing in a stock really. If the corporation goes under you're out of luck. If the value goes up you get whatever percentage of the profits your share was worth.

spoonitnow

01-03-2009, 01:52 AM

#7 (permalink)

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[ ] Anyone in this thread who has replied so far knows what stakeback is

If the deal was with stakeback then you are clearly owed.

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spoonitnow

01-03-2009, 01:55 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz

I have no idea what stakeback is but when staking someone if they lose your money your shit out of luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

think about this: where is your risk, if every horse you stake went broke and you somehow still got paid?

This is irrelevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parasurama

And this is incorrect in this situation.

euphoricism

01-03-2009, 03:40 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Stakeback means the next time this guy makes money he owes it to you. He's required to use future winnings to pay off previous backers *before* he's allowed to keep any winnings for himself. If he never plays again, I guess he never owes you.

If stakeback was the deal, then it's pretty clear he owes you the money.

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bode

01-03-2009, 04:26 AM

#10 (permalink)

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bode is an unknown quantity at this point

i've never heard it called stakeback before, though i've heard it called "makeup" lots. If the deal called for the stakee to pay back makeup then by all means you are owed $25. If, however, neither of the stakers clearly stated that makeup was required to the stakee, then you are shit out of luck.

From what i can make of that ass backwards aim convo, neither of you mentioned it and you are out $225. Also, its just as much your responsability as it is your buddy's to make sure the stakee know's the deal (its actually 2x more your responsability, DUCY?)

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Ragnar4

01-03-2009, 04:29 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Location: Billings, Montana

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Yeah,

If it was intrinsic in the primary negotiations, then he owes you.

Ask him if he agreed to a stakeback, if he says yes, then get out a source and prove what a stakeback is.

Also, in the future, be sure to explain what you expect in order to keep things clear. I was staked, but it was very clear, I owed a stakeback at some point plus % of whatever I made.

I cannot vote because I do not know whether a stakeback was agreed to with all parties knowing what stakeback meant.

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

bikes

01-03-2009, 04:32 AM

#12 (permalink)

a hot damn mess
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Stakeback in this case meaning Cake/Makeup? If so yes he does but its from the next time he makes money

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euphoricism

01-03-2009, 04:32 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

with all parties knowing what stakeback meant.

I'm on the fence as to whether this is relevant or not, but I'm leaning toward not.. idk.

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givememyleg

01-03-2009, 04:38 AM

#14 (permalink)

WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
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lol @ him just owing you $225 from his own pocket. if that were the case then he wasn't staked, he just borrowed $225 to play.

he owes you money from his next cash.

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Ragnar4

01-03-2009, 04:38 AM

#15 (permalink)

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The problem is: Verbal contracts are in most states, legal but unenforcable.
Of the multitudes of reasons that a verbal contract is unenforceable isbecause someone can claim a contradiction in language. In a written contract, there's no question as to what was in the contract, because it's all right there in front of you.

If I think I'm being openly full risk staked, and the other guy tells me *after the fact* it's stakeback, he's not getting a penny back, even if it means I'm getting kicked from the forums. LOL.

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

givememyleg

01-03-2009, 04:39 AM

#16 (permalink)

WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
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imo

givememyleg

01-03-2009, 04:41 AM

#17 (permalink)

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he reidak want to hook me up with one of these sweet deals? you stake me for a tournament and you'll win a % if i cash but if i don't cash i'll pay you back 100% of you investment. deal? ok cool!

KoRnholio

01-03-2009, 05:57 AM

#18 (permalink)

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It sounds like this stake was for one single $300 buyin. "Stakeback", or whatever you want to call it, really only applies if you plan on staking the guy in multiple sessions/tournaments.

If you just agreed to stake him in this one time, then you aren't owned anything. You can't really have a "stakeback" on a one time deal if he goes broke.

If you agreed to stake him over a longer term (ie this $225, then more on other occasions) and said that before he pockets his 50% of the winnings he has to pay his stakes back, then sure, he "owes" you. But you also must put up more stakes for him.

Cliff notes: Don't stake people who suck at poker and/or without a clear statement about the staking deal.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

chardrian

01-03-2009, 07:44 PM

#19 (permalink)

I rarely,if ever, get pms

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 4,524

he doesn't owe you anything - but if it was a stakeback/makeup/cake deal then he is now basically your poker bitch.

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wufwugy

01-03-2009, 10:19 PM

#20 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 1,660

lesson: dont stake somebody who is not enough of a friend to resolve any misunderstandings correctly and cordially

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