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vqc
Old 08-13-2006, 06:35 AM     Post subject: Logic Question #1 (permalink)  
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What is the logical reverse of this statement:
Most P are not R

I.E.
If some A are not C
then,
some C are not A
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WildBobAA
Old 08-13-2006, 06:44 AM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #2 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
I.E.
If some A are not C
then,
some C are not A
This is not necessarily a true statement. For example say A = Animals and C = Birds, the statement would then read "If some Animals are not Birds, then some Birds are not Animals". Which is obviously not true.

Also, I've studied logic as applied to statistics and calculus and I've never heard the term "logical reverse"
 
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vqc
Old 08-13-2006, 06:50 AM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBobAA
Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
I.E.
If some A are not C
then,
some C are not A
This is not necessarily a true statement. For example say A = Animals and C = Birds, the statement would then read "If some Animals are not Birds, then some Birds are not Animals". Which is obviously not true.

Also, I've studied logic as applied to statistics and calculus and I've never heard the term "logical reverse"
Ya my example was a mess up, i moved the not when i shouldnt have.

It should have said
If some A are Not C
then
Some Not C are A

Im pretty much asking for what would be the correct thing backwards
I figured out the answer tho so Im ok.
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Lukie
Old 08-13-2006, 09:00 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Me and my infinite wisdom's first impression was this:

Most R are not P



ps I was just going to reply with 'worst thread ever', but I'm going to see where this goes first.
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givememyleg
Old 08-13-2006, 09:38 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Instead of letting this thread die, let's make it a logical riddle thread...

This is a riddle a did a few years back in school for extra credit and took me a very long time to solve. I actually forgot how I got the answer so I am doing it again: (Don't be a nub and google the answer and ruin it for everyone kthx)


Einstein's Riddle

- In a street there are five houses, painted five different colors.

- In each house lives a person of different nationality

- These five homeowners each drink a different kind of beverage, smoke different brand of cigar and keep a different pet.

Einstein's riddle is: Who owns the fish?

Necessary clues:

1. The British man lives in a red house.
2. The Swedish man keeps dogs as pets.
3. The Danish man drinks tea.
4. The Green house is next to, and on the left of the White house.
5. The owner of the Green house drinks coffee.
6. The person who smokes Pall Mall rears birds.
7. The owner of the Yellow house smokes Dunhill.
8. The man living in the center house drinks milk.
9. The Norwegian lives in the first house.
10. The man who smokes Blends lives next to the one who keeps cats.
11. The man who keeps horses lives next to the man who smokes Dunhill.
12. The man who smokes Blue Master drinks beer.
13. The German smokes Prince.
14. The Norwegian lives next to the blue house.
15. The Blends smoker lives next to the one who drinks water.

Hint, make a chart.

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givememyleg
Old 08-13-2006, 09:39 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 So anyone have any extra time?

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givememyleg
Old 08-13-2006, 10:30 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 BOOM done... only took about 20 mins that time

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jackvance
Old 08-13-2006, 10:47 AM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
What is the logical reverse of this statement:
Most P are not R
Edit: I messed it up

Most P are not R

is in the form x=y
with x=Most P and y=not R

And NOT (x=y) => x != y

So:

Most P are not not R
or
Most P are R

EDIT2: hm maybe this is not what you're looking for..?
Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
 
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Miffed22001
Old 08-13-2006, 02:11 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 i think that

beer > logic
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sandstorm
Old 08-13-2006, 02:34 PM #10 (permalink)  
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mmm beer
>3

this is my favourite part of the post
it looks like angry boobs
 
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Irisheyes
Old 08-13-2006, 02:45 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
BOOM done... only took about 20 mins that time
40mins while 4 tabling.
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givememyleg
Old 08-13-2006, 02:48 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
BOOM done... only took about 20 mins that time
40mins while 4 tabling.
Damn I was 12tabling, you win...

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DaNutsInYoEye
Old 08-13-2006, 02:53 PM #13 (permalink)  
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We R waiting to C you post A pic of your girlfriend.
TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
 
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spoonitnow
Old 08-13-2006, 03:26 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
We R waiting to C you post A pic of your girlfriend.
lol nh
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I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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mrhappy333
Old 08-13-2006, 04:35 PM #15 (permalink)  
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If crack = C and Beer = B and Rum = R
then E=mc squared
3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
 
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swiggidy
Old 08-13-2006, 06:17 PM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
What is the logical reverse of this statement:
Most P are not R

I.E.
If some A are not C
then,
some C are not A
This isn't formulated properly for a logic statement. "Most" is too vague and would never be used. The only terms I have ever seen are "There exists", meaning there is at least one, and "All".

As played...
Ax P(x) -> !R(x)

The "reverse"
!(Ax P(x) -> !R(x))
Ex !(P(x) -> !R(x))
Ex (!!R(x) -> !P(x))
Ex (R(x) -> !P(x))

So, assuming "some" is the opposite (or reverse) of "most", my answer is:
Some R are not P

Note:
Ex => The exists an x (There are some x, in this case)
A => All x (Most x, in this case)
! => not

If the problem was "All P are not R" then the inverse is "There exists an R that is not P"
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
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swiggidy
Old 08-13-2006, 06:20 PM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
It should have said
If some A are Not C
then
Some Not C are A

Im pretty much asking for what would be the correct thing backwards
I don't think these statements have any logical correlation
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
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Warpe
Old 08-13-2006, 06:25 PM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
What is the logical reverse of this statement:
Most P are not R

I.E.
If some A are not C
then,
some C are not A
Some P are R is the only logical conclusion you can draw.



 
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samsonite2100
Old 08-13-2006, 07:04 PM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
What is the logical reverse of this statement:
Most P are not R

I.E.
If some A are not C
then,
some C are not A
Some P are R is the only logical conclusion you can draw.
I agree with this.
 
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vqc
Old 08-13-2006, 09:46 PM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #20 (permalink)  
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vqc
Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonite2100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
What is the logical reverse of this statement:
Most P are not R

I.E.
If some A are not C
then,
some C are not A
Some P are R is the only logical conclusion you can draw.
I agree with this.
You can also say that:
Some things that are Not R are P

I.E.
If Most Plants are Not red
THen SOme things that are not Red are Plants.
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swiggidy
Old 08-13-2006, 10:02 PM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonite2100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
What is the logical reverse of this statement:
Most P are not R

I.E.
If some A are not C
then,
some C are not A
Some P are R is the only logical conclusion you can draw.
I agree with this.
You can also say that:
Some things that are Not R are P
How are you differentiating between some and most?
Does most mean that some are not, or could it be all (i.e. Is it possible "All P are not R")?
Is this problem from a class at school?
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
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vqc
Old 08-13-2006, 10:14 PM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #22 (permalink)  
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vqc
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonite2100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
What is the logical reverse of this statement:
Most P are not R

I.E.
If some A are not C
then,
some C are not A
Some P are R is the only logical conclusion you can draw.
I agree with this.
You can also say that:
Some things that are Not R are P
How are you differentiating between some and most?
Does most mean that some are not, or could it be all (i.e. Is it possible "All P are not R")?
Is this problem from a class at school?
Some ranges from 1-All
Most means a majority of

Im studying for my LSATs
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swiggidy
Old 08-13-2006, 10:45 PM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #23 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
Some ranges from 1-All
Most means a majority of
These definitions would never fly from a philosophical logic (barely from a mathematical logic) viewpoint. But whatever, it is what it is.

Some things that are Not R are P
This is the only logical conclusion.

Some P are R
The problem with this is in the definition. If a majority could be all, then the sets could be disjoint. This statement is then false.

If majority := (population/2 + 1) through (All-1), only then is it true.

You could add:
Some P are not R
although it is trivial

Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
Im studying for my LSATs
Cool, well good luck.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
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vqc
Old 08-13-2006, 10:52 PM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #24 (permalink)  
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vqc
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
Some ranges from 1-All
Most means a majority of
These definitions would never fly from a philosophical logic (barely from a mathematical logic) viewpoint. But whatever, it is what it is.

Some things that are Not R are P
This is the only logical conclusion.

Some P are R
The problem with this is in the definition. If a majority could be all, then the sets could be disjoint. This statement is then false.

If majority := (population/2 + 1) through (All-1), only then is it true.

You could add:
Some P are not R
although it is trivial

Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
Im studying for my LSATs
Cool, well good luck.
LSATs aside could u explain to me the whole
wouldnt fly from a philosophical logic viewpoint thing?

I can define the word Some in so many ways...
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swiggidy
Old 08-13-2006, 11:10 PM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
LSATs aside could u explain to me the whole
wouldnt fly from a philosophical logic viewpoint thing?

I can define the word Some in so many ways...
I'm thinking from a formal logic or symbolic logic viewpoint. Your 2nd sentence is exactly why it wouldn't fly (which is why I asked before because I wasn't sure how to interpret it).

In math it is very simple.
0 or 0 => 1
1 or 0 => 1
1 or 1 => 1

There is no confusion. For formal logic they attempt to convert english (any language but that's what we are using) into a format that has no confusion. The only two quantifiers used are "The exists" (backwards E) or "All" (upside down A). These are easily defined, E, there is at least one, could be all, maybe not. I think all is straightforward.

So a statement like most flowers are not red would become
E(x) [F(x) ^ !R(x)]
which says, there exists something which is a flower and it is not red.
"Some flowers are not red" would have the exact same formulation.

{NOTE: I think I screwed up in my first post with the translation}

Anyway, words like some and most are removed because of the ambiguity. If a specific definition was created it would be OK, (i.e. some <=> 1 through all (which is the same as there exists)).

I hope that was a clear enough explanation.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
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vqc
Old 08-14-2006, 02:59 AM #26 (permalink)  
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The funny thing is
this example came out of the formal logic section of the book.

Ok i read ur explanation again and I guess the "some" that is used is equilvalent to "there exists".

Anywho, thanks for the explanation!
I guess that Masters was worth something afterall =P
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swiggidy
Old 08-14-2006, 03:10 AM #27 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
The funny thing is
this example came out of the formal logic section of the book.
I'm not terribly surprised. Ambiguous wording leads to loop holes. I'm sure you'll see this come up a lot through law school.

Where do you want to go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
Anywho, thanks for the explanation!
I guess that Masters was worth something afterall =P
No prob. This was actually from my undergrad. I thought this was a cool post because I haven't really thought about this idea for 3-4 years.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
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vqc
Old 08-14-2006, 03:18 AM #28 (permalink)  
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vqc
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
The funny thing is
this example came out of the formal logic section of the book.
I'm not terribly surprised. Ambiguous wording leads to loop holes. I'm sure you'll see this come up a lot through law school.

Where do you want to go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
Anywho, thanks for the explanation!
I guess that Masters was worth something afterall =P
No prob. This was actually from my undergrad. I thought this was a cool post because I haven't really thought about this idea for 3-4 years.
Stanford
Berkeley
UCLA
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bluey
Old 08-14-2006, 04:35 AM     Post subject: Re: Logic Question #29 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vqc
What is the logical reverse of this statement:
Most black people are not Rich

most rich people are not black
ftw
BR: $.1k
Goal 2: July 1 $10k

IIbeatsUU: lol u raised with that?

you mini raised, therefore you desereve whatever you get....
 
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Old 08-14-2006, 05:01 AM #30 (permalink)  
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 A woman has 7 children, half of them are boys. how is this possible?

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Old 08-14-2006, 05:02 AM #31 (permalink)  
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The other half are boys too.
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Old 08-14-2006, 05:03 AM #32 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenonsequitur
The other half are boys too.
Bingo bango.

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Old 08-14-2006, 05:08 AM #33 (permalink)  
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Two girls are born to the same mother on the same day (same month, year, etc..) but they're not twins. How is this possible?
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Old 08-14-2006, 05:09 AM #34 (permalink)  
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 part of a triplet
Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
 
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Old 08-14-2006, 05:11 AM #35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by jackvance
part of a triplet
you win. here's a cookie:
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Old 08-14-2006, 05:12 AM #36 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
part of a triplet
Has to be it.

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Old 08-14-2006, 05:24 AM #37 (permalink)  
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 You are in a room with 2 doors, one will lead to paradise and the other will lead to hell. The 2 doors are identical and you do not know which door will lead to which. In front of the 2 doors are 2 computers. One will ALWAYS lie while the other ALWAYS speaks the truth.

You must ask ONE question for you to find out which door leads to paradise or hell. What question should you ask?

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jackvance
Old 08-14-2006, 05:32 AM #38 (permalink)  
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 "What will the other computer answer if I ask which door goes to paradise?"

Then the opposite is always the truth.
Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
 
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AvatarKava
Old 08-14-2006, 02:36 PM #39 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
A woman has 7 children, half of them are boys. how is this possible?
Gabe is the 7th child?

Hermaphrodite ftw?
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givememyleg
Old 08-14-2006, 04:00 PM #40 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvatarKava
Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
A woman has 7 children, half of them are boys. how is this possible?
Gabe is the 7th child?

Hermaphrodite ftw?
That was the other correct answer.

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Lukie
Old 08-14-2006, 08:38 PM #41 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvatarKava
Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
A woman has 7 children, half of them are boys. how is this possible?
Gabe is the 7th child?

Hermaphrodite ftw?
That was the obviously correct answer.
ZING!
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Halv
Old 08-14-2006, 08:45 PM #42 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
Einstein's riddle is: Who owns the fish?.
The norwegian. Didn't read the clues, though.

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Old 08-14-2006, 09:41 PM #43 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalvSame
Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
Einstein's riddle is: Who owns the fish?.
The norwegian. Didn't read the clues, though.
Nope.

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Old 08-14-2006, 09:56 PM #44 (permalink)  
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I just filled in the letter B whenever I didn't know the answer - it seemed to work for me.
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swiggidy
Old 08-14-2006, 10:00 PM #45 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chardrian
I just filled in the letter B whenever I didn't know the answer - it seemed to work for me.
Nice.

You know every fills in C.
You know they know everyone fills in C.
So you fill in B instead.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
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chardrian
Old 08-14-2006, 10:09 PM #46 (permalink)  
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LSAT metagame.

woot!!
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Old 08-14-2006, 11:07 PM #47 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalvSame
Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
Einstein's riddle is: Who owns the fish?.
The norwegian. Didn't read the clues, though.
Nope.
Yep. (guess where I'm from )

First music vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFerARdGW04
Free stream of different song here: http://www.nrk.no/urort/artist/wellfear ('Lytt'/play button on right side)
 
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Old 08-14-2006, 11:18 PM #48 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
A woman has 7 children, half of them are boys. how is this possible?
The lower halves are boys and the upper halves are girls.

Anyone else into chicks with dicks besides me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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Old 08-14-2006, 11:18 PM #49 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
You are in a room with 2 doors, one will lead to paradise and the other will lead to hell. The 2 doors are identical and you do not know which door will lead to which. In front of the 2 doors are 2 computers. One will ALWAYS lie while the other ALWAYS speaks the truth.

You must ask ONE question for you to find out which door leads to paradise or hell. What question should you ask?
Ask one computer what the other one would say if you asked it which door led to paradise, then pick the other door.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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AvatarKava
Old 08-15-2006, 12:42 AM #50 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
A woman has 7 children, half of them are boys. how is this possible?
The lower halves are boys and the upper halves are girls.

Anyone else into chicks with dicks besides me?
See my post above.
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